GEMS Education Dubai
recent threads recent posts Search posts faq rules
Home » Pregnancy Matters » BF and formula? otherwise i'll become zombie
Pages: 1

shjbelle
Posts 1775


12/01/2012 12:20:25
is DS swaddled? if you EBF, can't you sleep at 10 or even earlier with DS1 and get DH to help you with the first feeding? that way you can have 'more' sleep. that's what i did.

but if you feel as a mom that you wanna give formula at night..why not? save your sanity. formula's now are good too.
S





kiwispiers
Posts 3000


12/01/2012 12:36:36
I doubt its the fact that he is breastfed that makes him only sleep for an hour at a time, more likely its that he is dependent on a "prop" like falling sleep while feeding, or being rocked to sleep etc and is waking up when he shifts to a light part of a sleep cycle and finds the "prop" is no longer there. I would also look carefully at his daily routine, is he getting enough daytime sleep? going to bed early enough at night etc? I found the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child quite good in explaining how to work with the natural circadian rhythms etc to get good sleep.

So I would work on that, but if you need a break in the meantime of course you can have a bottle of expressed breastmilk, (or formula if you'd prefer) that someone else can give in the night, so that you can sleep through that feed. Can your husband help by getting your older son ready for school in the morning?





SweetLily
Posts 160


12/01/2012 15:03:02
Oh no. Hugs to you, mama. How frustrating.

What is your sleeping arrangement? How are you nursing at night? Are you having to get up and out of bed or go to a different room? Does your son settle right back to sleep after nursing? Have you spoken to a breastfeeding supporter or counsellor? How do you feel about giving formula?





lec299
Posts 139


12/01/2012 15:26:51
Hi there. I am 27 weeks pregnant with first child, so can't talk from experience - but I was chatting to a friend with a baby yesterday and she said that she breastfed during day and formula-fed for last feed and dream feed at night (he slept completely through after 3 months). I've heard some people saying it isn't best idea, as once baby has formula, he wants formula only - but she is proof that it can and does work. I'm going to try this from the beginning when baby is born (assuming I am able to breastfeed at all, which I am putting myself under no pressure over). I hope it helps x





Green-ish
Posts 9419


12/01/2012 15:41:07
lec299 wrote:
Hi there. I am 27 weeks pregnant with first child, so can't talk from experience - but I was chatting to a friend with a baby yesterday and she said that she breastfed during day and formula-fed for last feed and dream feed at night (he slept completely through after 3 months). I've heard some people saying it isn't best idea, as once baby has formula, he wants formula only - but she is proof that it can and does work. I'm going to try this from the beginning when baby is born (assuming I am able to breastfeed at all, which I am putting myself under no pressure over). I hope it helps x


Congratulations on your pregnancy lec299! You might find it helpful to talk to a lactation consultant even before your baby arrives. Having current information and her support before you start your breastfeeding journey can be invaluable. An LC will most likely explain to you that, assuming breastfeeding is basically going well, it's advisable to exclusively breastfeed for a bare minimum of six weeks. Even mums with more than one child can find that it takes up to six weeks to establish a good breastfeeding relationship with each baby. Unless there's a problem, introducing formula too soon can affect your supply & can cause the some confusion with latching (very different on a breast or a bottle). Once breastfeeding is well established, if you still feel you want to introduce formula...look at it then. You sound like you have a great approach to it all.





Green-ish
Posts 9419


12/01/2012 15:56:29
Oh Orchard, it's SO exhausting isn't it?

Do you know how much sleep he's getting in 24 hours? During the day? Maybe he's 'just' exhausted...young babies find it very hard to fall into a deep sleep and stay there between cycles if they are overtired. It could be that tweaking a few things during the day will help him (and you!) get more sleep at night.





kiwispiers
Posts 3000


12/01/2012 16:20:21
lec299 wrote:
Hi there. I am 27 weeks pregnant with first child, so can't talk from experience - but I was chatting to a friend with a baby yesterday and she said that she breastfed during day and formula-fed for last feed and dream feed at night ... I'm going to try this from the beginning when baby is born (assuming I am able to breastfeed at all, which I am putting myself under no pressure over). I hope it helps x


something to think about with this approach is that you will lose some of the protective/health benefits that you would get if you exclusively breastfed. You might want to read up on it or talk to an LC so you can make an informed choice.





lec299
Posts 139


12/01/2012 16:20:54
Thanks Green-ish - I'm doing ante-natal classes and breastfeeding is covered in the last week. Also plan to book a consultant to come to the house to help after the birth. I just don't feel overly passionate about it like some women do - but have always wanted to give baby best start and 6 weeks sounds a good target initially. I do find it confusing that some women suggest introducing a bottle from the beginning (my friend didn't - her baby is now 6 months, doesn't sleep for more than 3 hours at a time, and won't take a bottle from anyone - so she strongly recommended me to introduce early). I guess everybody's babies are different - and I really don't have anything against feeding with formula, so will just see how it goes and move over if it doesnt work!





Hello.Again.Kitty
Posts 2043


12/01/2012 16:47:24
lec299 wrote:
Thanks Green-ish - I'm doing ante-natal classes and breastfeeding is covered in the last week. Also plan to book a consultant to come to the house to help after the birth. I just don't feel overly passionate about it like some women do - but have always wanted to give baby best start and 6 weeks sounds a good target initially. I do find it confusing that some women suggest introducing a bottle from the beginning (my friend didn't - her baby is now 6 months, doesn't sleep for more than 3 hours at a time, and won't take a bottle from anyone - so she strongly recommended me to introduce early). I guess everybody's babies are different - and I really don't have anything against feeding with formula, so will just see how it goes and move over if it doesnt work!


There's a lot to be said for starting out on the right foot and with a positive, but realistic attitude.

Regarding bottles, there's absolutely nothing to say that babies should need to bottle feed and especially if you're happy breastfeeding, then, well, what's the point?! DD never took to the bottle and I kicked myself for not trying earlier, mainly because she was set on a 23h feed and that meant I couldn't have an evening out! With DS, I introduced a bottle of bm early on (which was pathetic anyway because I had to express during 3 half hour sessions over 3 days to get 1 bottle's worth, whereas if I just fed him direct, it took 5 minutes!)... anyhow, DS dropped the 23h feed really early on, so the whole bottle exercise was pointless! Both my two got used to drinking from the Tommee Tippee cups from about 5 months, so when we stopped bf, they drank their milk from a cup.

There's also absolutely no research suggesting that formula makes babies sleep better/longer/more - those very same babies could have been "good sleepers" anyway, could have grown into a longer sleep pattern naturally or, well, it could just be fluke. My dad told me a joke once (bad dad joke) - 2 men are in a park and one is clicking his fingers constantly. The other asks why he's doing it, to which he replies "it's to keep the wild elephants away". "But there aren't any wild elephants in England!" says the first... "So it works then!" says the second.

Anyhow, Orchard - I second Kiwi here - look to the daytime. Look also to the bedtime routine. Try to set up a clear rhythm with some strong sleep cues and hopefully it'll help. What time is he going to bed? I would say any time between 18h and 19h is ideal.





kiwispiers
Posts 3000


12/01/2012 18:42:34
lec299 wrote:
I do find it confusing that some women suggest introducing a bottle from the beginning (my friend didn't - her baby is now 6 months, doesn't sleep for more than 3 hours at a time, and won't take a bottle from anyone - so she strongly recommended me to introduce early). I guess everybody's babies are different - and I really don't have anything against feeding with formula, so will just see how it goes and move over if it doesnt work!


My LC told me that there is a "window" for introducing a bottle, basically try to avoid it in the first 6-8 weeks as it can interfere with them learning to suck on the breast properly, (which can lead to pain, blocked milk ducts, low supply etc,) then if you want to be able to give a bottle, introduce it between 8 and 12 weeks, after 12 weeks they are more likely to refuse to take it (as your friend discovered).

btw my exclusively BF baby slept 6 hours straight more or less from birth and a 9-10 hour stretch from 9 weeks (we had loads of dummy related sleep issues later on though lol) and lots of my other BF friends had babies who slept 12 hours from around 4 months without giving formula. Formula may take slightly longer to digest, but it doesn't take 12 hours!

to the OP, if your baby is falling asleep on the breast and being transferred to bed while asleep I'd say thats the issue. Here is a technique that might help:
when-your-baby-wakes-frequently-feed

here is a link to some good info on sleep "problems"
http://www.parentingscience.com/infant-sleep-problems.html





kiwispiers
Posts 3000


12/01/2012 18:47:46
orchard wrote:
thank u so much ladies for ur support and kind words. my DH's concern is that once he is on formula, he won't accept BF, whereas i plan to feed him for at least an year. i don't feel guilty about starting him on formula but i'll feel bad if he stops BF completely


I did have this issue, I was giving EBM rather than formula and only very occasionally not even every night. DS at around the 4 month mark suddenly completely refused to breastfeed for over a week and I had to express all his feeds until I get him breastfeeding again. It was a nightmare, very stressful and I pretty much never gave him a bottle again after that. I think it depends on the baby though some seem to adapt to mixed feeding better than others and some who started on mixed feeding from birth eventually reject bottles completely for the breast.





Hello.Again.Kitty
Posts 2043


12/01/2012 18:49:37
orchard wrote:
thank u so much ladies for ur support and kind words. my DH's concern is that once he is on formula, he won't accept BF, whereas i plan to feed him for at least an year. i don't feel guilty about starting him on formula but i'll feel bad if he stops BF completely
i don't rock him, and stopped swaddling when he was one month old. yes, he always sleep when feeding. and as soon i lay him on his back, he's up after 45 minutes, and sometimes it becomes nearly impossible to make him sleep again
his height and weight are good according to his age, so he's doing perfectly fine feeding and sleeping wise (i think). he usually sleeps in the morning 6:30 to 8 and after that from 10 to 1 in afternoon. somtimes have a nap of an hour near 4. and then till night the feedimg and sleeping (hardly 15 minutes) game goes on


Just looking at that, I would count any sleep up until 8h as "night time", so that's not a day nap, which means he's only having 1 or 2 daytime naps, which isn't much for a 3 month old. I would have expected 2 for sure, with the occasional 3. Length doesn't really matter - it's the length of time awake that is telling. My son was having a single 11h-14h nap with occasional late afternoon nap when he was 12-24 months old.

In short, my gut feel is that your son is overtired at bedtime and so needs something (your breast) to knock him out, so to speak, but then it's a restless sleep because his brain is hyper - and sleep cycles go in 45 minute er, cycles, so that would tie in. If that's the actual problem, no formula can help - maybe a shot of gin to make him pass out (NO, please don't do this!)...





lec299
Posts 139


12/01/2012 19:10:16
I just think that all babies and mothers are different and respond to different things - which is why there is such a difference of opinion about breastfeeding / formula / breast vs bottle. What works for one baby / mother won't work for another, so you have to find your own way. Interestingly, I was watching a program yesterday on TV that says that it's the same throughout the animal world, not just humans - often sheep, for example, aren't able to breastfeed and the babies have to be passed onto another mother or bottle fed by a farmer. As a first time Mum who is 12 weeks away from giving birth, the wealth of advice / opinion is quite overwhelming!

Orchard, I really hope he starts to sleep for you soon. Must be so exhausting for you - and can only imagine how confusing it is when baby has actually arrived. I wish they came with a manual!





lec299
Posts 139


12/01/2012 19:10:17
I just think that all babies and mothers are different and respond to different things - which is why there is such a difference of opinion about breastfeeding / formula / breast vs bottle. What works for one baby / mother won't work for another, so you have to find your own way. Interestingly, I was watching a program yesterday on TV that says that it's the same throughout the animal world, not just humans - often sheep, for example, aren't able to breastfeed and the babies have to be passed onto another mother or bottle fed by a farmer. As a first time Mum who is 12 weeks away from giving birth, the wealth of advice / opinion is quite overwhelming!

Orchard, I really hope he starts to sleep for you soon. Must be so exhausting for you - and can only imagine how confusing it is when baby has actually arrived. I wish they came with a manual!





kiwispiers
Posts 3000


12/01/2012 19:12:25
Hello.Again.Kitty wrote:
- maybe a shot of gin to make him pass out (NO, please don't do this!)...


lol

you're right though HAK, about the sleep not the gin at 3 months my DS was only up for 90 min at a time including feeds, any longer and he was well over tired. 3 hours awake time in a row is a looong time for such a little baby, could well be the problem.





ilovewine
Posts 1467


12/01/2012 19:18:17
May i ask a question? I know the op's baby is 3months old compared to my 1week old, but ds sleeps 2.5hrs to 3hrs max, around the clock. And feeds every time he wakes. Am i facing the same problem? Or is this ok for his age? Im so scared of forming the wrong sleep associations but feeding ds at this stage is paramount to anything else. So much to learn with this baby malarkey!





kiwispiers
Posts 3000


12/01/2012 19:26:05
lol ilovewine, yours is doing exactly what a newborn should, and you should def feed him when he wakes, he'll be hungry but try and put him back to bed awake not asleep, its the falling asleep on the breast or dummy that can cause issues.





kiwispiers
Posts 3000


12/01/2012 19:28:46
since I gave everyone else links here is one for you ilovewine

http://www.parentingscience.com/newborn-sleep.html





ilovewine
Posts 1467


12/01/2012 19:29:54
Thanks kiwispiers. I sound so dumb lol but if i dont ask i'll never know. I feed and dh burps ds, then we put him to bed. He cries a bit but does eventually fall asleep.





Hello.Again.Kitty
Posts 2043


12/01/2012 19:56:40
ilovewine wrote:
Thanks kiwispiers. I sound so dumb lol but if i dont ask i'll never know. I feed and dh burps ds, then we put him to bed. He cries a bit but does eventually fall asleep.

then that is perfect... seriously!

I spent the 1st 3 months of DD's life constantly worrying about whether I was doing the Right Thing (no such thing) and in constant fear of forming Bad Habits. After bursting into tears for the umpteenth time, my mum said "there's absolutely no habit that can't be broken, so it really doesn't matter at this stage".

Try to worry less and you'll find yourself enjoying babyhood more. Just by asking the questions, you're proving that you're a good, caring mum and that, quite frankly is the best thing a baby could ever have. The rest is just detail.





kiwispiers
Posts 3000


12/01/2012 20:32:02
Hello.Again.Kitty wrote:
After bursting into tears for the umpteenth time, my mum said "there's absolutely no habit that can't be broken, so it really doesn't matter at this stage".

Try to worry less and you'll find yourself enjoying babyhood more. Just by asking the questions, you're proving that you're a good, caring mum and that, quite frankly is the best thing a baby could ever have. The rest is just detail.


like ,

honestly read the books, ask for advice, have good intentions.... but ultimately I think just get through the first 6 weeks doing what feels right, then when you are back on your feet, feeding is going well etc you can fine-tune. Don't be so caught up in doing what you think you "should" be doing that you force yourself into something that feels wrong, or unnatural, if that makes sense.

lol probably I've just confused you more.





blinkthink
Posts 134


13/01/2012 10:07:06
Hey Orchard totally feel your zombieness
My 12 wk DD is the same, up twice for a feed about 2.30 and then 5am even after having a feed at around 10pm. I am up at 5.30am to get my other two children up and out for school at 7am and then we get back in about 8am from that run in time for another feed. I have many other demands with the other two when they get home from school, clubs, homework etc... And nevermind the running of a home The LO doesn't go more than 3hrs without a feed (demand feeding). She is absolutely thriving. My adrenalin has run out and the make-up is ploughed on lol
I EBF both my other children, one for 11 months & the other until 2yrs (wouldn't ever take a bottle).
I am feeling now that I need more sleep just to function and not be bad tempered because of sleep deprivation, my DH works long hrs in AD so it is v important he gets sleep as he is on that awful road 6 days a wk so he is unable to help during the night. I expressed with previous LO and it is so time consuming and extra work and I simply do not have the time to do this that I made the decision a couple of days ago to give her formula!! I got the 'closer to nature' bottles and HiPP formula. I have been giving her a feed at 10pm with bottle and now she has slept until 5am, although she only took 3ozs.
I would like to be able to go out in the evening and having a some freedom to do so. My 2nd child totally refused the bottle and I had to go back to work at 6months and I was totally stressed out, don't want to go there again.
I have friends that successfully combined fed for months.
You have to do what is best for you - Happy mummy = happy family xxxx





starsouthern
Posts 1931


19/01/2012 19:56:49
Happy Mummy = happy Baby. You have to do what's best for you. Best advice I was given by my mother when I had my first was 'everyone has an opinion on how to best raise your child, but you need to remember it's your child so you know what's best.'





Hello.Again.Kitty
Posts 2043


20/01/2012 01:55:09
orchard wrote:
thank you so much ladies for your kind words, advices and for not taking me on a guilt trip (for not EBF)
i started my DS on 1 formula bottle at night, and it's so much easy now. for the first 3 days he wasn't accepting the bottle, but on the 4th day somehow he latched. and he is totally fine with the breasfeeding and bottle. he is sleeping 2.5 - 3 hrs at a time. and i am getting some ME time now.


Yay! Result!





blinkthink
Posts 134


20/01/2012 22:35:57
That's brilliant orchard!!
I'm still doing 1 bottle a night, only taking a little bit but sleeping longer stretch at night x





Pages: 1
 
Abu Dhabi Dubai Bahrain Kuwait Oman Qatar Saudi Arabia Azerbaijan Singapore Hong Kong Vietnam Site Map

© 2001 - , ExpatWoman.com. All Rights Reserved.