Two men in Ibn Batutta out photographing Children this afternoon without consent! | ExpatWoman.com
 

Two men in Ibn Batutta out photographing Children this afternoon without consent!

181
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 12 October 2011 - 18:09

I was in Ibn Battuta Mall by Toystore (Egypt Court) this afternoon with my 2 little ones when suddenly appeared two men with professional looking cameras. They were taking fotos of the walls seemingly interested in the interior design but something about them made me suspicious so I watched them closely. I saw that they were taking photographs on the sly of children without permission. Vey quickly I saw one photographing my daughter. I straight away confronted him. He just looked so shifty, seriously I can't explain why my hackles went up so fast, some sixth sense. But I was really angry! He told me he was just photographing the wall paintings but I insisted on seeing his camera. Sure enough there was a full photo of only my daughter! I made him delete it + another appeared + another close up. What on earth! It really didn't seem innocent to me. The fotos of my DD were deleted but how many other children had their pictures taken by them today I wonder. And why?!

299
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 18 October 2011 - 13:34
Gosh, as a first time mom to an 8 month old this is soo so scary to read. When I moved to Dubai a couple of months ago one of the first observations I made was how people seem to be really 'interested' in your child. My husband laughs at me, and tells me i'm just being too 'wstern'. From strangers, to sales people, to maids, to guards... Comming from the west where you don't randomnly grab someone's child- this made me uncomfortable. On many occasions, I went to the mall and randomn people would put their hands in my sons pram to touch his cheeks or his hair...one security guard at an atm even attempted to take my pram away while I did my transaction. He was trying to be nice- and I get that- but this just infuriated me. I literally had to struggle and be rude to get him to take his hands off my sons stroller. It also doesen't help that my boy is overly friendly and smiles at everyone... Even women have tried to take him out of the stroller to hold him and when I stop them- they really do get angry at me. Yes-perhaps I'm paranoid, but it's my right- he's my son and I am responsible for him. I don't know you, or where your hands have been so damn right you better not touch him. This taking picture thing just gives me the creeps and all the more reason for all of us to be extremely vigilant and careful with our children and our surroundings.
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EW OLDHAND
Latest post on 18 October 2011 - 12:35
I'd be concerned if srange men took pics of young kids without parent's consent. Many years ago when we were in Turkey, it was our blond teenage DD who was the centre of attention with camera wielding men. She was 14 and clung to her dad trying to hide her face from the morons who actually tried to stop us in our tracks to take her pic. Thought DH was going to kill someone. There is a difference between someone admiring a cute tot and asking to take a pic, and 2 men wandering about snapping away. This needs to be reported IMO. I too have taken pics of gorgeous local children in Africa, Asia and other parts of the world but always with consent and on some occasions handing a few coppers or sweets to the kiddies as a thank you. Mums have gut instincts when things are not right.
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 18 October 2011 - 12:01
when your gut feels there is something wrong, most likely there is, uugghh this thread has just given me shivers, just thinking of the perverts, kidnappers, human traffickers, out there, how dare people take advantage of our child's innocence! just because we don't hear much about the weirdos and kidnapping doesn't mean its not out there... the media suppresses a lot here, keeping me in fear of the unknown... always keep an eye on you children! uuggghhh i am so disturbed... i will forever be keeping my eyes out for these sneaky trolls!
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 17 October 2011 - 17:02
Suzy that's really horrible!!! I'm glad her parents taught her what to do! Out of curiosity, do they have any 'stranger danger' programs in the schools here? We had a program at home called 'Safety House'. Local families who wanted to could apply and be screened with the police, they would have a sign put outside the house with a yellow house with a smiley face- we were all taught if we had 'stranger danger' or anything else wrong and we couldn't find an adult, we could run to a Safety House and the mums/dads there would call our parents, the dr or police depending on the situation. I had to use this one day when my mum got delayed picking me up and all the school staff had left for the day. A man tried to grab me and luckily I got away from him and ran to the safety house (in this case it was actually the local doctor's office near the school) They called my father at work to let him know where I was and waited with me at school til my mum came to get me (car had broken down) Turned out the man was wanted by the police for several other crimes involving kids- I had a very lucky escape! Several other kids made good use of the Safety House- one when she had an asthma attack and lost her inhaler, the other when mum & dad each thought it was the other's turn for school pickup. Perhaps it might be worth asking the community council if you could instititute a 'safety house' type program here... even if it is just in each school area with trusted parents. SK what a terrible experience,thank goodness for the safe house program. In view of what has been happening I think a brilliant idea.
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 17 October 2011 - 16:56
Hi everyone - on the 26 Sep in DSO, my 6 yr old daughter's tennis friend was approached by two men, one in a car, and the other standing just outside of the car, They asked her if she wanted to see their kittens...fortunately, her parents had taught her well and she took off running. The police took this very seriously, but they are having problems catching them because a 6 yr olds description is of course very inaccurate. All she could say was they they were fair skinned. I have also heard reports of two Eastern European men taking photographs outside of school nearby a few months ago. They were approached by parents and they claim they had an appointment at the school about architecture. A few streetwise parents dragged them to the office, and the camera revealed photos of the children. - yet the school just deleted the photos and shewed them away. KT - can you pinpoint the day and time these men were taking photographs? We can provide this information to the local police here and potentially see if this little girl can identify them. This is VERY SERIOUS! With regards to coloring of the child, I understand that the child traffickers, especially the Eastern European once at least, do very much appreciate the blond/blue eyes girls. This little 6 yr old has beautiful olive skin, long blond hair and is an absolute stunner. It appears this was a pro job because they came right in the middle of peak playing time at our local playground so they were loads of people around. If anyone has any descriptions, please let us know. SD reading this has just made my blood run cold. Thank goodness she had been schooled on what to do. A big thank you to you for clarifying this attempted abduction. KT hopefully you can pass on the info to SD and the police can finally identify these two beasts. A good idea I think is for all concerned parents to bring this to the attention of the schools.Keep the heat on these two so that they can be caught. The school that deleted the photos should really be hauled over the coals.The police should def have been called. Most importantly keep a close watch on your children as SD said they pounce when and where we least expect it. If you have a maid/nanny watching your kids a good sit down is in order.The last thing many maids do while at the playground is watch the kids,too busy chatting. <em>edited by Nomad on 17/10/2011</em>
1336
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EW OLDHAND
Latest post on 17 October 2011 - 15:38
Suzy that's really horrible!!! I'm glad her parents taught her what to do! Out of curiosity, do they have any 'stranger danger' programs in the schools here? We had a program at home called 'Safety House'. Local families who wanted to could apply and be screened with the police, they would have a sign put outside the house with a yellow house with a smiley face- we were all taught if we had 'stranger danger' or anything else wrong and we couldn't find an adult, we could run to a Safety House and the mums/dads there would call our parents, the dr or police depending on the situation. I had to use this one day when my mum got delayed picking me up and all the school staff had left for the day. A man tried to grab me and luckily I got away from him and ran to the safety house (in this case it was actually the local doctor's office near the school) They called my father at work to let him know where I was and waited with me at school til my mum came to get me (car had broken down) Turned out the man was wanted by the police for several other crimes involving kids- I had a very lucky escape! Several other kids made good use of the Safety House- one when she had an asthma attack and lost her inhaler, the other when mum & dad each thought it was the other's turn for school pickup. Perhaps it might be worth asking the community council if you could instititute a 'safety house' type program here... even if it is just in each school area with trusted parents.
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 17 October 2011 - 14:59
No slamming from me. I think there's a big difference between people like you, and the two men in the Ibn Battuta Mall (it's not the first time I've heard of this happening there). I agree, big difference. I agree too!!!!
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 22:19
Thank you KT for starting the initial thread warning parents about these men who gave you a "creepy feeling". So glad you have reported it. I think instead of debating about photographing children if it is cultural or not we should all take from this issue the fact that something seemed to be amiss here. A balanced view about people admiring / photographing your children is needed and overall TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS. If nothing else it has raised awarness and given us all a nudge to be ever vigilant when it comes to our precious kids. edited by Nomad on 13/10/2011 **Like button pushed** :)
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 22:14
Thanks for your responses ladies. Everything about these two men just felt wrong. For some reason I noticed them the second they walked in + hoovered around quietly observing children outside Toystore. It was as though they were pretending to be tourists. In the interest of warning other mothers I shall attempt to describe them. Though hard to say I think they were of Eastern European origin (Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan perhaps), both in their 40s. One man was tall + slim (6,3ft or there abouts) with darker brown hair peppered with grey, while the other was shorter, not so slim and with a rounder face wearing a rose coloured tshirt. Both white but tanned + both had professional cameras the type with zoom in lenses. I telephoned 901 to report the incident because I decided to trust my gut instinct that this was not innocent. I have in the past been more than happy to have my DS+DD held, talked to + even cuddled by friendly child loving strangers who have asked permission first. This was different though. The agent who picked up my 901 telephone call said he would report it to IBN Battuta Mall management + if I see them again to immediately report them. Thank you KT for starting the initial thread warning parents about these men who gave you a "creepy feeling". So glad you have reported it. I think instead of debating about photographing children if it is cultural or not we should all take from this issue the fact that something seemed to be amiss here. A balanced view about people admiring / photographing your children is needed and overall TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS. If nothing else it has raised awarness and given us all a nudge to be ever vigilant when it comes to our precious kids. <em>edited by Nomad on 13/10/2011</em>
181
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 21:55
Thanks for your responses ladies. Everything about these two men just felt wrong. For some reason I noticed them the second they walked in + hoovered around quietly observing children outside Toystore. It was as though they were pretending to be tourists. In the interest of warning other mothers I shall attempt to describe them. Though hard to say I think they were of Eastern European origin (Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan perhaps), both in their 40s. One man was tall + slim (6,3ft or there abouts) with darker brown hair peppered with grey, while the other was shorter, not so slim and with a rounder face wearing a rose coloured tshirt. Both white but tanned + both had professional cameras the type with zoom in lenses. I telephoned 901 to report the incident because I decided to trust my gut instinct that this was not innocent. I have in the past been more than happy to have my DS+DD held, talked to + even cuddled by friendly child loving strangers who have asked permission first. This was different though. The agent who picked up my 901 telephone call said he would report it to IBN Battuta Mall management + if I see them again to immediately report them.
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 14:20
to clarify, I wasn't objecting to the original post, just some of the responses, I see no difference in the photos I took while traveling and the photos that the maids, locals and other expats have taken of my son in malls here, often not asking permission first. If your mummy-sense kicks in a something feels wrong, you should always listen to it of course.
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EW OLDHAND
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 13:26
No slamming from me. I think there's a big difference between people like you, and the two men in the Ibn Battuta Mall (it's not the first time I've heard of this happening there). I agree, big difference.
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EW GURU
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 13:25
Whilst there is an outside chance this was not intended as anything harmful, as far as childrens safety goes it is not worth the risk of giving them the benefit of the doubt. The OP should report this to Alameen - they will follow it up without her having to go through any of the palaver of going to the police station etc I had occasion to use them for the 1st time last week to report something vey dodgy. I left a message, they called me back within the hour, asked questions and told me they would follow it up. Easy to do and hassle free.
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EW MASTER
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 13:07
No slamming from me. I think there's a big difference between people like you, and the two men in the Ibn Battuta Mall (it's not the first time I've heard of this happening there).
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 12:48
As a photographer I've done the same thing, and have photographed countless village children in my travels around the world, so I'm pretty tolerant of my son being photographed, and I DO think he gets extra attention for being blonde haired and blue eyed in a part of the world where it is less common, it is frequently commented on, just as I was intrigued by little children of other ethnicities around the world. He has been picked up, bounced and cuddled by local women and men, the maintenance guys, the compound maids at the playground. I don't think you can or should automatically assume that anyone who likes watching children play is some kind of sicko, lots of those guys are missing their own lids growing up while they work here to provide for them, some people get a bit obsessive/aggressive about the whole no-photography thing. If you'd prefer no photos (as is your right) you can just say so without flying at the photographer like a wild banshee and accusing them of wanting to sell your child on ebay. Only once has the situation seemed dodgy, and in that case I did tell the man to go away, and removed my son from the area. just my thoughts, am sure I'll get slammed for them. :), I do have more a problem with people trying to give my baby chocolates, but I attempt to be diplomatic in my refusal.
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 12:37
Two men in Ibn Batuta taking photos of children sounds a little bit weird to me, but maybe they were just taking photos of the mall and it happens that your children was there. Having said that I think it is estrange. I travelled around Africa for half a year and whenever me and my partner arrived to a new village we were welcomed by a big group of children. We always took photos of the children and showed them afterwards the photos in the screen and they loved it. Even when adults (parents) were there they loved to pose for us and see themselves pictured in the camera screen. We have, literally, tonnes of photos with children from this trip. I posted some of the photos in my Facebook as this was an essential part of our experience in Africa, the welcoming to a new village surrounded by children. One of the photos is now framed in my living room; me and very cute girl from Mali who was with us for a few hours when visiting one of the villages. Photos were always under people's consent, but sometimes parents were not there. I don't think I did anything wrong, I was just playing with the children. If you did "sometimes" take photos of the children without their parents' being present so no consent like you said, then yes you were absolutely wrong!! <em>edited by Annabelle09 on 13/10/2011</em>
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EW MASTER
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 11:06
Nimonemo, I think that your visits to villages in Africa are extremely different from men going into a Dubai Mall and taking surreptitious photos of children without them or their parents being aware of it.
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 11:05
I wonder what the response would actually be....I once spoke to the police at the airport about men taking surreptitious photos of various women and they said there was nothing they could do as it is not illegal to take photos of other people! To say I was shocked is putting it mildly. Perhaps if it were local women they would have acted differently. Perhaps if they hadn't been eating their McDonalds breakfast , ditto. Perhaps a different policeman might have acted differently. Perhaps because it is children...who knows.... That's totally amazing for the police to tell you its not illegal because it is absolutely illegal in the UAE to take photos of anyone without their knowledge or permission. You had every right to complain. or maybe it was because it was airside as well and certain laws of the land don't apply? Could be, that would explain their attitude. Would have thought same rules apply even airside, what about if someone photographed local ladies in that area - the police would do nothing :\: I would say if it was local ladies, there may well have been a different reaction, sadly.
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EW GURU
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 10:54
Two men in Ibn Batuta taking photos of children sounds a little bit weird to me, but maybe they were just taking photos of the mall and it happens that your children was there. Having said that I think it is estrange. I travelled around Africa for half a year and whenever me and my partner arrived to a new village we were welcomed by a big group of children. We always took photos of the children and showed them afterwards the photos in the screen and they loved it. Even when adults (parents) were there they loved to pose for us and see themselves pictured in the camera screen. We have, literally, tonnes of photos with children from this trip. I posted some of the photos in my Facebook as this was an essential part of our experience in Africa, the welcoming to a new village surrounded by children. One of the photos is now framed in my living room; me and very cute girl from Mali who was with us for a few hours when visiting one of the villages. Photos were always under people's consent, but sometimes parents were not there. I don't think I did anything wrong, I was just playing with the children. Nimonemo, i think OP has a right to be freaked out. esp with the latest nearly child abduction case that happened in DSO.
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 10:51
Two men in Ibn Batuta taking photos of children sounds a little bit weird to me, but maybe they were just taking photos of the mall and it happens that your children was there. Having said that I think it is estrange. I travelled around Africa for half a year and whenever me and my partner arrived to a new village we were welcomed by a big group of children. We always took photos of the children and showed them afterwards the photos in the screen and they loved it. Even when adults (parents) were there they loved to pose for us and see themselves pictured in the camera screen. We have, literally, tonnes of photos with children from this trip. I posted some of the photos in my Facebook as this was an essential part of our experience in Africa, the welcoming to a new village surrounded by children. One of the photos is now framed in my living room; me and very cute girl from Mali who was with us for a few hours when visiting one of the villages. Photos were always under people's consent, but sometimes parents were not there. I don't think I did anything wrong, I was just playing with the children.
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 10:37
I wonder if the two men in ibn Batuta where the same as the two men approaching the girl in silicon oasis. I sincerely hope the dodgy photographers will be reported to the police for the sake of the kids they did manage to take pictures of, where the parents did not notice. We are out and about so often and with all the tourists here, you don'T pay attention anymore to people taking pictures. It makes me sick to think someone might have been able to take a picture of my child without me noticing.
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EW GURU
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 10:29
It's all very scary. Please see the link i posted re this subject under thread title 'ref to ibn batutta/facebook status/dso. has some valuable advice
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 10:28
There is no debate regarding the law with such issues. The police will take such information very seriously and need to be informed. If there is a gang working the region then the police need to be kept informed of such incidents. It's everyones responsibility to be vigilant and report such concerns however minor. I do hope the OP contacts the police and lets them know what she saw.
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EW MASTER
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 10:27
I wonder what the response would actually be....I once spoke to the police at the airport about men taking surreptitious photos of various women and they said there was nothing they could do as it is not illegal to take photos of other people! To say I was shocked is putting it mildly. Perhaps if it were local women they would have acted differently. Perhaps if they hadn't been eating their McDonalds breakfast , ditto. Perhaps a different policeman might have acted differently. Perhaps because it is children...who knows.... That's totally amazing for the police to tell you its not illegal because it is absolutely illegal in the UAE to take photos of anyone without their knowledge or permission. You had every right to complain. or maybe it was because it was airside as well and certain laws of the land don't apply? Could be, that would explain their attitude. Would have thought same rules apply even airside, what about if someone photographed local ladies in that area - the police would do nothing :\:
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EW GURU
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 10:27
This thread is so scary.. any chance of the mods fwding this to the coppers.. and make it aware?
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EW MASTER
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 10:05
According to the Dubai FAQs information guide, this is what it says in "The Dubai Code of Conduct decency rules and laws": Q: Photos of people - and especially photos of women and families - in public places shall not be taken without their permission. Taking photos of people is a sensitive issue in Dubai’s local culture. UQ. Not clear if it is a law? I can't find the relevant page on www.dubai.ae.
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 10:04
I wonder what the response would actually be....I once spoke to the police at the airport about men taking surreptitious photos of various women and they said there was nothing they could do as it is not illegal to take photos of other people! To say I was shocked is putting it mildly. Perhaps if it were local women they would have acted differently. Perhaps if they hadn't been eating their McDonalds breakfast , ditto. Perhaps a different policeman might have acted differently. Perhaps because it is children...who knows.... That's totally amazing for the police to tell you its not illegal because it is absolutely illegal in the UAE to take photos of anyone without their knowledge or permission. You had every right to complain. or maybe it was because it was airside as well and certain laws of the land don't apply?
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EW GURU
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 09:55
That's totally amazing for the police to tell you its not illegal because it is absolutely illegal in the UAE to take photos of anyone without their knowledge or permission. You had every right to complain. it strange really, on 1 hand 2 men were jailed for taking pics of the Yas F1 Circuit, and here we have police saying its not illegal to take pics of people !
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EW MASTER
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 09:25
I wonder what the response would actually be....I once spoke to the police at the airport about men taking surreptitious photos of various women and they said there was nothing they could do as it is not illegal to take photos of other people! To say I was shocked is putting it mildly. Perhaps if it were local women they would have acted differently. Perhaps if they hadn't been eating their McDonalds breakfast , ditto. Perhaps a different policeman might have acted differently. Perhaps because it is children...who knows.... That's totally amazing for the police to tell you its not illegal because it is absolutely illegal in the UAE to take photos of anyone without their knowledge or permission. You had every right to complain.
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EW MASTER
Latest post on 13 October 2011 - 08:54
Agree - her post is contradictory...think it might be the way she has phrased it.......
 
 

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