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Home » Dubai & Northern Emirates » Toddler's restless sleep...will homeopathy help?
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Parisienne
Posts 170


18/05/2012 07:44:07
I need to get my 2 years old sleep sorted asap. She cries at least 15 times a night and is very restless. She cannot stop moving during the night. We are sharing the room with her at the moment so needless to say we don't sleep either.
She is very cranky during the day, I'm not surprised...
Do you think homeopathy would help? Is there any other natural way of treating her sleeping disorder? Unfortunately her peadiatrician doesn't take me very seriously and is not considering this to be a problem...
It is becoming a big problem for the whole family...my other 2 children included since she also wakes them at night when she cries.
Any suggestion would be appreciated.





kittycat71
Posts 1781


18/05/2012 08:03:48
She may have intestinal worms. They are most active at night and can cause restless sleep. Some people have no symptoms at all but some are badly affected. I deworm my whole family every 3 months. They are so easy to get, at least 70 % of people have them. Gross, but a fact of life! Just google for more info and medicine can be bought over the counter at the pharmacy.





AnonDubai
Posts 11382


18/05/2012 08:20:21
I don't know anything about worms but what I can say is that my now 4 year-old used to thrash and cry all night in her sleep when she was 2 and 3. This eventually stopped and she now sleeps like a block. My three-year old also cries a lot in her sleep although her thrashing is not as bad. I am wondering if this is a normal phase that toddlers go through.





Missymoo
Posts 172


18/05/2012 08:45:08
My DD ped once told me an far infection could cause those symptoms..maybe have their ears checked





Appletiser
Posts 7472


18/05/2012 10:06:08
Try another pediatrician. That doesnt sound normal. Obviously something is bothering the poor little one. Hope she gets sorted soon.





mogindubai
Posts 117


18/05/2012 10:15:24

AnonDubai
Posts 11382


18/05/2012 10:27:57
I consulted a child psychologist in the USA about my child's thrashing and crying almost two years ago. My DD was two at the time and had stopped daily naps at the age of 23 months. The doctor told me that children should be napping daily until the age of 3 and that my DD's daytime exhaustion was causing her restless sleep. I guess I'll never know if that advice was true but my DD did grow out of it.





Parisienne
Posts 170


18/05/2012 11:11:09
Thank you ladies. She still takes a 2h nap every day. I also considered worms and gave her a treatment a few weeks ago. She plays in the sandpit every day and I heard that it is common for kids to get worms that way. I guess I can give her another dose? I will ask the pharmacist...
I'm sure she will grow out of this phase but in the meantime we are absolutely exhausted...
I will also give homeopathy a try.





kiwispiers
Posts 3000


18/05/2012 12:48:09
Have you looked into her diet? You might want to try completely cutting out all food colouring, flavorings additives etc as well as sugar. There is a website that talks about this, will see if I can find a link.





kiwispiers
Posts 3000


18/05/2012 12:53:50
link
link
link
edited by kiwispiers on 18/05/2012





edna.welthorpe
Posts 608


18/05/2012 15:04:25
Parisienne wrote:

I will also give homeopathy a try.

You do understand that homeopathic remedies are just water, don't you? They are so highly diluted that the "active ingredients" in the water can have no possible effect. This has been proven by real, proper science.

Why not try balancing on one leg outside her bedroom? It'll have as much effect.





mrs_Bing
Posts 68


18/05/2012 17:18:56
I know this will sound weird to some, but we had our house done by a Fung shui expert and I could not believe the difference it made to both our children's sleep, not to mention ours! Something to consider maybe? I know it's not everyone's cup of tea.





Goldeelocks
Posts 287


18/05/2012 17:45:15
My thoughts for what they're worth i) 2 hours afternoon sleep is way too long...1 hr maximum ii) is you bed time routine consistent, our is 6.15 bath, 6.45 story, 7.00 sleep - the timing is less important then the consistency iii) they're sleeping with you, is this out of necessity? if not stop it immediately.
Having seen 4 kids through the terrible 2s they have all had a period where they tried it on at bed time. My response has always been to ignore the crying...they very quickly learn it won't help. At first it has incredibly hard...DS2 super stubborn once cried for 2 hours for attention, next night 1 hr, next night 30 mins etc etc...you know when I cry is a try on and when it is serious. With DS3 I had to lock the door for a week as he wouldn't stop getting up and coming into our room. Sounds harsh but the behaviour lasted a week and that was it. I think if you put your foot down when they start this nonsense you nip it in the bud in a week or so, if you give into it then it dominates your life for the next 2 years or so. Good luck.





Moustique
Posts 299


18/05/2012 17:47:42
Hello Parisienne, my youngest son had similar difficulties sleeping and my pediatrician back home (Paris) suggested i try Quietude for children over 1 (laboratoires Boiron). It's a homeopathic syrup. It worked like a charm for us ... and he soon settled. Was it the syrup? my decreased level of anxiety? the routine it set? I'll never know, but he would ask for his syrup, drink it and calmly go to sleep. We finished the bottle and that was that. For the record I used homeopathy for my kids teething, very mild fevers and bruises and bumps, and it worked as well ... or so I found.
Now I dont know if you can find it here, but I have seen Boiron's products in 2 pharmacies here (Mercato and the one next to Waitrose in the Dubai Mall).
Best of luck.





edna.welthorpe
Posts 608


18/05/2012 18:56:44
Moustique wrote:
Was it the syrup? my decreased level of anxiety? the routine it set? I'll never know

You can certainly know for a fact that it wasn't the syrup. You could just as successfully have given him flavoured water each night and told him it was special medicine to help him sleep. Science has proven that homeopathic remedies are no different to placebos.

Many years ago, there was a trend in the UK to attach a little rubber strap to your car's rear bumper, so that it hung down and touched the road surface. The idea was that it "drew off static electricity" and so prevented children from getting car-sick. There was absolutely no scientific basis for this, but parents insisted that it worked. Of course, what was happening was purely psychological, as most car sickness is. The kids were told that that strap would stop them being sick, and so they weren't sick. All in the mind, just like homeopathy.





Goldeelocks
Posts 287


18/05/2012 19:07:43
a bit like the weight loss with many ladies...I think you're trying to find a magic formula/cure when in the end it will come down to good old fashioned discipline and dedication





sadubai
Posts 329


18/05/2012 19:30:22
My 2-year old has always been a difficult and restless sleeper too. I know CIO works for some but it is not something we believe in. He co-sleeps too, which is something I intend to start working on this year. He naps for 1.5-2 hours daily. This is because I believe in an afternoon nap and I like to keep him up a little later so he gets some time with his father, who works late. His sleep habits have improved since he started nursery from 8:15am-12:15pm because he has a morning routine and playschool tires him out. The big things which have improved his sleep pattern are solids - as his eating has improved I can see his sleeping has too. Also, I try to ensure he has an active afternoon after he wakes up. Until recently he would spend up to 2 hours on his daily park trip. Nowadays I try to ensure I take him for a swim daily in the evening - we're lucky in that our pool does not get direct sun and has a chiller. After his swim we play in the yard. Tiring him out is also important to his night sleep. W.r.to homeopathy I'd only say many of the science related to whether or not they work is in itself questionable. I am a big believer in acupuncture. Many scoff at it. We used the Boiron teething gel and it worked for us. Amber necklaces work for others. Go with your gut, I am a big believer in mother's instincts...trying Quietude or something similar cannot harm.





sydneygal
Posts 971


18/05/2012 19:36:09
you could try giving some linden tea (limeflower) which is available loose leaf at the Organic shop. A naturopath friend in Oz recommended it (she calls it lullaby tea and says once you try it you'll never look back for sleep issues) and it helped my DS with sleep immediately (he still has it). I mix it with formula as he's younger....you could add a little honey to sweeten and give it as it is. It's also great for teething/fever....worth a try?





edna.welthorpe
Posts 608


18/05/2012 20:14:41
sadubai wrote:
W.r.to homeopathy I'd only say many of the science related to whether or not they work is in itself questionable

That's exactly the kind of thing that supporters of pseudoscience say, without ever citing solid examples. There isn't a reputable scientist in the world who considers homeopathy to be worthy of serious consideration as a branch of medicine. It's people selling snake oil to the desperate or just plain gullible.





kiwispiers
Posts 3000


18/05/2012 20:23:08
edna.welthorpe wrote:
[Of course, what was happening was purely psychological, as most car sickness is. The kids were told that that strap would stop them being sick, and so they weren't sick. All in the mind, just like homeopathy.


motion sickness is most definitely not psychological, I really wish it was for my sake and my poor baby's. What science are you basing that on??

oh and not all homeopathic remedies are just water, many also contain quite a lot of sugar





edna.welthorpe
Posts 608


18/05/2012 20:38:08
kiwispiers wrote:

motion sickness is most definitely not psychological, I really wish it was for my sake and my poor baby's. What science are you basing that on??

An awful lot of motion sickness *is* psychological, as demonstrated by the rubber strap I mentioned earlier. There are also many people who claim to suffer from car sickness, but are quite happy to ride rollercoasters - why don't they get rollercoaster-sick, given the much more violent ride?

We have a friend who insists that she can't sit in the back seat of a car because she gets car-sick if she does. If she sits in the front, she's fine. Logically, of course, she's subjected to the same motion in the front of the car as in the back, so she should get equally car-sick in the front... but she doesn't. Purely psychological.





kiwispiers
Posts 3000


18/05/2012 21:09:11
I get way more carsick in the backseat, most people do, I also tend not to get carsick if I drive. That doesn't make it psychological, a lot of the cause of carsickness has to do with mismatched sensory processing of movement. For someone critiquing homeopathy as being unproven, you are kind of making the same sort of unscientific statements don't you think?.





starsouthern
Posts 1931


18/05/2012 21:20:42
Motion sickness occurs because there is a disagreement between perceived visual movement and our body's balance system sense of movement. So if you are in a car your body thinks your not moving but your eyes are telling your brain that you are moving. This conflict of what you feel and what you see triggers a reaction in the brain making your brain think that you have been poisoned, to get rid of the poison your brain sends signals to your body to throw it up.

The ride in the front seat of a car is usually less bumpy than the back, in the front there is also more window space, watching the passing scenery can help confirm your body's balancing system that you are moving.

Drivers tend not to get carsick as they are focusing on the road that is still so brain not getting as much conflicting information.

Acupressure has proven to work in helping prevent motion sickness. That is what the band that you referred to does.
edited by starsouthern on 18/05/2012





sandfly
Posts 4114


18/05/2012 22:41:35
edna, I agreed with you on the homeopathy - but frankly now you are talking twaddle.

As others are saying, a lot of it is due to mismatched messages between eyes and inner ears.

The placebo effect, whether of pills, injections or rubber straps is a fascinating one, but certainly doesn't mean that whatever is being treated is purely psychological - it is certainly possible that belief that something would help would relieve sickness symptoms, but no matter how popular they were; intriguingly the body will actually show diminished observable physical symptoms after a placebo treatment (and the effects are greater for a placebo vaccination than for a pill!!)

For sadubai - how else would you establish whether something works, rather than the 'double blind' study with a sufficient sample size? that surely has to be the best way of checking something out? but as far as I know there is no such study which proves the efficacy of any homeopathic drug.





SueB
Posts 11173


18/05/2012 23:27:35
here is a good read if you can be bothered....

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alternative-medicine/PN00001





verdeque
Posts 395


19/05/2012 05:00:20
Our son had, and still continues to have on occasion, sleep issues. By 3, he was at a hospital with a million wires attached to him for an overnight sleep study. Here are the things I would try out, if you haven't already.

- I'd make sure the naps are over by 1 or 2, as otherwise she might struggle with settling at night. I'm a big believer in naps, and have read about 3 books on sleep, and often if they don't nap, then they struggle at night, from overexhaustion, but you may already know that. This book, btw, proved invaluable to myself and several friends -

http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Sleep-Habits-Happy-Child/dp/0345486455/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337388078&sr=1-1

- I'd look at worms, too, but it seems you've already gone down that path. You can always hold a flashlight to their bum in the middle of the night to see if anything's down there. You can google how to find them. Icky, but an elimination.

- As you will read if you get that book, often times, contrary to what parents think, your children need more, not less sleep. So many people advise you to keep them up later, when in fact an earlier bed time is very often needed. At 2, your daughter would still need about 12-14 hours of sleep a day, including naps.

- when things got really bad for us, our dr told us to break the cycle by giving our son benadryl. And he told me that if he woke, to dose him again. The trouble is that bad sleep begets bad sleep, so we needed to do the benadryl thing for a few days, but he needed the sleep desperately.

- we also use natural calm almost every night. I referenced it in another thread here. It has been a lifesaver for us.
http://www.vitacost.com/natural-vitality-natural-calm-orange
In fact, our son wants it most nights still. I sure hope you can get it there, as I'm moving there in August and will otherwise need to buy several canisters of the stuff first! Roobois tea is also wonderfully calming.

- perhaps a bit of protein with complex carbs before bed in case she's a bit hungry? maybe a bit of peanut or almond butter on toast?

- re night terrors, I don't think so. It's something we still suffer with, and that's usually only 1 time a night, and you'd think Charles Manson was attacking our son when those happen. It's awful, and it's usually only in Summer, when our son is super hot and overly tired.

- lastly, something that we need to investigate again, is reflux. The sleep specialist suggested this, and actually our son does have a thing where he will sort of spit up food fairly often. If we don't give him natural calm, he will often do this spit up thing, but it goes away when we are consistent with it. Reflux is linked to low magnesium levels, which is what natural calm contains, in an effervescent (ie so it travels quickly to bloodstream) state. There are medications for reflux based on magnesium, but it's not necessary when you can simply buy it. It's not something that will harm your daughter, anyway, as we are all low in magnesium these days, due to a variety of environmental and dietary factors. I would never have believed this was the cause, but actually now that I'm writing this I'm realizing that I need to investigate this further with our son before we head over to Dubai!

- the only other thing I'd say is I'd try to create her own sleeping space. I'm all for letting your kids sleep with you, and we often play musical beds in our house, but there's a way to teach them to sleep on their own gently, that doesn't require crying it out. We did a lot of 'mommy's right here, go back to sleep,' as we edged our way out of the room more and more each night. It was a struggle, and our son, nearly 8, still asks us to lie with him about 5 nights a week, and we may oblige him for 15 min or so 1 or 2 nights. But I'm very aware that they will grow into little insomniacs if they don't learn to settle themselves somewhat.

It's a struggle. My 5 yo sleeps beautifully, and my 8 yo wakes at 6 or 630, no matter when he goes to bed. It's a nightmare!

Sorry for the novel, and good luck to you!





verdeque
Posts 395


19/05/2012 05:00:21
Our son had, and still continues to have on occasion, sleep issues. By 3, he was at a hospital with a million wires attached to him for an overnight sleep study. Here are the things I would try out, if you haven't already.

- I'd make sure the naps are over by 1 or 2, as otherwise she might struggle with settling at night. I'm a big believer in naps, and have read about 3 books on sleep, and often if they don't nap, then they struggle at night, from overexhaustion, but you may already know that. This book, btw, proved invaluable to myself and several friends -

http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Sleep-Habits-Happy-Child/dp/0345486455/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337388078&sr=1-1

- I'd look at worms, too, but it seems you've already gone down that path. You can always hold a flashlight to their bum in the middle of the night to see if anything's down there. You can google how to find them. Icky, but an elimination.

- As you will read if you get that book, often times, contrary to what parents think, your children need more, not less sleep. So many people advise you to keep them up later, when in fact an earlier bed time is very often needed. At 2, your daughter would still need about 12-14 hours of sleep a day, including naps.

- when things got really bad for us, our dr told us to break the cycle by giving our son benadryl. And he told me that if he woke, to dose him again. The trouble is that bad sleep begets bad sleep, so we needed to do the benadryl thing for a few days, but he needed the sleep desperately.

- we also use natural calm almost every night. I referenced it in another thread here. It has been a lifesaver for us.
http://www.vitacost.com/natural-vitality-natural-calm-orange
In fact, our son wants it most nights still. I sure hope you can get it there, as I'm moving there in August and will otherwise need to buy several canisters of the stuff first! Roobois tea is also wonderfully calming.

- perhaps a bit of protein with complex carbs before bed in case she's a bit hungry? maybe a bit of peanut or almond butter on toast?

- re night terrors, I don't think so. It's something we still suffer with, and that's usually only 1 time a night, and you'd think Charles Manson was attacking our son when those happen. It's awful, and it's usually only in Summer, when our son is super hot and overly tired.

- lastly, something that we need to investigate again, is reflux. The sleep specialist suggested this, and actually our son does have a thing where he will sort of spit up food fairly often. If we don't give him natural calm, he will often do this spit up thing, but it goes away when we are consistent with it. Reflux is linked to low magnesium levels, which is what natural calm contains, in an effervescent (ie so it travels quickly to bloodstream) state. There are medications for reflux based on magnesium, but it's not necessary when you can simply buy it. It's not something that will harm your daughter, anyway, as we are all low in magnesium these days, due to a variety of environmental and dietary factors. I would never have believed this was the cause, but actually now that I'm writing this I'm realizing that I need to investigate this further with our son before we head over to Dubai!

- the only other thing I'd say is I'd try to create her own sleeping space. I'm all for letting your kids sleep with you, and we often play musical beds in our house, but there's a way to teach them to sleep on their own gently, that doesn't require crying it out. We did a lot of 'mommy's right here, go back to sleep,' as we edged our way out of the room more and more each night. It was a struggle, and our son, nearly 8, still asks us to lie with him about 5 nights a week, and we may oblige him for 15 min or so 1 or 2 nights. But I'm very aware that they will grow into little insomniacs if they don't learn to settle themselves somewhat.

It's a struggle. My 5 yo sleeps beautifully, and my 8 yo wakes at 6 or 630, no matter when he goes to bed. It's a nightmare!

Sorry for the novel, and good luck to you!





verdeque
Posts 395


19/05/2012 05:07:41
and as soon as I left this site, someone had posted this on FB. Brilliant!
http://moms.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748100-the-latest-child-rearing-fad-detachment-parenting?lite





Kathyt
Posts 733


19/05/2012 08:41:10
Thank you for all the useful posts, especially Verdeque. As I sit here, exhausted as usual after being joined in the early hours by my restless four year old, it feels as if at least, I am not alone. Will definitely try some of the techniques such as red bush tea and natural calm. DS has been a disturbed sleeper since he was around 1, grinds his teeth violently, thrashes around, sleepwalks and shouts and I can find no discernible reason for any of it. It has got to the stage when we have conceded that it is a long stage which he will just grow out of. So, any way of shortening this "stage" is most welcome. Good luck everyone.





verdeque
Posts 395


19/05/2012 17:15:22
Kathyt wrote:
Thank you for all the useful posts, especially Verdeque. As I sit here, exhausted as usual after being joined in the early hours by my restless four year old, it feels as if at least, I am not alone. Will definitely try some of the techniques such as red bush tea and natural calm. DS has been a disturbed sleeper since he was around 1, grinds his teeth violently, thrashes around, sleepwalks and shouts and I can find no discernible reason for any of it. It has got to the stage when we have conceded that it is a long stage which he will just grow out of. So, any way of shortening this "stage" is most welcome. Good luck everyone.


It's tough, isn't it? I forgot to mention that I turn into a tourette's mother when my son wakes me up at the crack of dawn, as well. I'm like Jekyll & Hyde, seriously. Does your son come in and wake you, or is this just something he does in his room? Did you eliminate worms as a possibility? I would absolutely try to find a pediatric sleep specialist there. In fact, if you do, tell me who you found, as I'll be looking him or her up soon, I'm sure. Oh, and like clockwork, my 8 yo went to be late, and still woke us up at 615. grr.

When I'm in a good mom phase, ie consistently doing positive, rather than negative reinforcement, I have rewards I give him for not waking us till 7. When he was your kid's age I had a bag full of inexpensive toys (like pound store or dollar store stuff), that I'd let him pick from if he stayed in his bed till 7, and didn't come and wake us in the night. That worked wonders for us, and if he did 5 nights in a row, he'd get a special treat.

Good luck!





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