EK wives - roster query

SueB is painting it all rosy but once pushed a bit she admits that, in TWELVE YEARS her husband has had ONE summer holiday! Also she admits that he sleeps for 12 hours, eats and goes straight back to bed. GreaIt life. This apparently is your answer , OP, regarding the rosters - absolutely exhausting. Yes Sue, that is what I said but you need to have taken it in the whole context :) It was in reply to those who said their husbands did not have family time, christmas, school holidays etc...I was not pushed to say what was said lol....I related our life and you forgot to also mention that my husband is in his 60's which would have a much greater toll on him than a man in his 40's :)... Yes, I do paint a Rosy Picture because for us, that is pretty much it. We made a decision to Look on The Bright Side of Life (listen to the song, it is perfect lol) and my husband is not absolutely exhausted all the time lol....re : holidays...when I say summer, I mean smack in the middle June, July August. But it has not been a problem, it is just the way it is :) So, for those that this is a problem for....and you are not here yet, then I might not come :) but not a problem for us... Bush pilots?? I do have to say when you are young you start at the bottom everywhere. Once a company accepts your credentials of min flying hours they pay for the rest of your training. You should not be paying to get into a Glass Cockpit. Most of the guys we know started out of the military in the Air Force. So, any want to be pilots sign up. If you are paying for your own training for 10-15 years and are in heavy debt because of it......maybe the road taken was the wrong one because s I say, once you are hired be it Buffalo wing in the North or 'fly by the seat of your pants'in the south, the airline pick up the tab for recurrent training and upgrades. Unless things have changed drastically. Ok then, since my name was mentioned I replied :)...I am most likely done with this thread now as I think all the OP's questions and then some have been covered lol EDIT: I asked my husband about pilots paying for their training. He said it was a U.S. thing that fell over to other places for low cost airlines. Pilots needed hours so inhis words these airlines (raped and pillaged the pilots) to get their hours. He also said because airlines now are getting desperate for pilots we should see this trend ending. shameful of these airlines

Does Air Arabia really pay more than Emirates?

well ok, I understand where you are coming from but, they were not golden years. Maybe 20 years ago they were but we had to have a car loan and the company gave 50,000 interest free to get started. So we paid it off. As for coming debt free, we sold our house so paid off all our debts. I know things are more expensive, I do live here. Look, I do have compassion, the whole thing I have been speaking about is how very unhappy everyone on here seems...no one even looks for a bright side. IfI was wanting to come here after reading all this I also might change my mind. All I was trying to get across is there is another side. Yes the husbands are tired, mine included and because he is in his 60's a lot harder for him. He comes home now and can sleep for 12 hrs and goes to bed after breakfast the next day... yes he is exhausted, we try hard to make what we have work, it is not any easier than anyone else but we are here, we have to live here and we might as well try and find happy somehow. That is all I am saying. Am i judging? Idont think so, I am trying to counteract the negativity and the black cloud. I don't see how people can live with so much unhappiness and not try and change it somehow. My husband also had a 3 year bond. Our first actual summer holiday in 12 years was this past summer! we were stunned to say the least. I can count on him managing 2 actual whole christmas days in 12 years. We often had christmas on the 26th or 27th... I never said anyone was ungrateful. But I cannot understand why no one seems to be able to find a bright side. Right now, it is what it is :(...it cannot be changed but we can change how we deal and look at it. So I am sorry if you looked at it that way but that is not how it was meant. We try hard and have tried hard through the years here, when there were changes in the contracts, when hours were increased, when he was exhausted etc., we would discuss it, settle it in our minds and move along ...because we could not change it we had to change our mindset or we would have been pretty miserable here :( I do hope things change in the next few years for Emirates so things can be scaled back but until they do ......... So back to the poor original poster's question ... which was about the ROSTERS not about benefits or packages or anything else that the wannabes on this forum are obsessing about ... this post sums it up the best I think. On one hand, SueB is painting it all rosy but once pushed a bit she admits that, in TWELVE YEARS her husband has had ONE summer holiday! Also she admits that he sleeps for 12 hours, eats and goes straight back to bed. Great life. This apparently is your answer , OP, regarding the rosters - absolutely exhausting. The package itself is good. But your husband will pay a price. And the other part I fully agree with , is her argument to put up and be supportive. Living with an exhausted and therefore grumpy spouse day in and day out wears thin, but the pilots are the ones doing the endless hours of work and training and dealing with all the politics etc and paying the bills and if couples agree to stay here for the package, the wives need to suck it up and make the best of it. Sadly, there are a lot of jobs in Dubai that men (and women) do that involve ridiculous hours and loss of family life etc, it is not just pilot jobs. The only difference is all the time zone issues and lack of recovery sleep. But it is not a competition as to who has it worst, the OP just wanted to get feedback and every pilot's wife on here, including Sue B has warned her he will be tired. But if the OP is strong, independent, empathetic and willing to run everything in the family , they will survive. One last thing I would like to explain is a lot of people asking, if you don't like it, why not just leave? Most pilots are trapped here because of seniority in the airlines. Whereas an accountant, lawyer etc with many years of experience would be recruited into a new job at a similar or more senior level / pay level, because of his/her experience; in aviation you generally always start at the bottom. Also they spend their first 5-10 years of the career heavily in debt usually, paying a huge amount for training, flight hours, training bonds, then washing planes etc, flying in the bush for minimum wage etc etc and it is only the last 10-20 years of their career where they make any decent money . So to go back to Europe , North America etc and start as a First officer again making 30,000 dollars taxable income a year when they are 50-60 and need retirement money, is just not wise. As well, there are really not many jobs available yet. US is opening up, but only for Americans. UK is starting to open up for first time in many years.

Jet lagged? Funny, because most of the pilots I know are out on the p*ss all the time - that's why they're flippin' tired. Too much parting - the single ones anyway. Long haul is a drag, but on many flights, they now have heavy crews that rotate during the flight, plus let's face it - autopilot, auto lands etc etc. I know a husband and wife team, both pilots on the A380 fleet, they really are passing planes in the night. Humped and Dumped by a Pilot then! LOL That was a really sh*tty comment to make! Actually my father was a Manager for Emirates for over 10 years!!! I have lots of close pilot friends, so I know well what they get up to. I'm actually married to a military man, if you think pilots have it tough, try not seeing your other half for 3 months at a time and the hellish conditions he has to ut up with, not to mention putting his life on the line. Keep your smutty opinions to yourself and shut the **** up! So you can dish out insults .. basically insinuating that planes fly themselves and pilots do nothing but get ****** all the time, but get your back up when someone has a laugh. And have you mentioned to all your "close pilot friends" your opinion "let's face it- autopilot, auto lands etc..." When the sh*t hits the fan in the air (and it does, not that infrequently I might add,) it is those well trained, constantly tested (on their days "off" ) pilots who save your life, dear. You just don't know it because it is handled and all seems calm in your seat, sipping wine. That comment was highly insulting. If you are going to dish that kind of garbage out, expect to get it back.

Jet lagged? Funny, because most of the pilots I know are out on the p*ss all the time - that's why they're flippin' tired. Too much parting - the single ones anyway. Long haul is a drag, but on many flights, they now have heavy crews that rotate during the flight, plus let's face it - autopilot, auto lands etc etc. I know a husband and wife team, both pilots on the A380 fleet, they really are passing planes in the night. Sorry FD we agree on many things but you are way out of line with this one. Unless you are married to a pilot or are a pilot with EK at present you have no idea , " I know a husband and wife team " does not cut it. I read your comment about rotation of heavy crews and autopilot to my DH his comment " ignorance is bliss isn't it "........ Note I was primarily talking about the 'single' guys, not the married ones. Well you know if they don't like it, they can always go to other airlines. Air Arabia pay MORE than Emirates and they only do short haul flights. Everywhere has their ups and downs, sure it's not what it used to be, but sadly there are more pilots than jobs out there right now. Sure lots of them moan and complain, and lots of the perks have now gone, but they're still better off than in many other places. Some people are better at dealing with the long haul and time zones than others. So maybe short haul is better option for those people. There's no question that those on main fleet have a tougher time than the A380 crews, who seems to have much more down time. But with the rate of expansion I don't think that's going to last long either. I am far from ignorant on the subject and probably am more informed than you think. You don't have to be married to a pilot to know things. I know people across the board including those poor folk who have to do their best to keep the crew happy, even though their hands are tied. Your comments about heavy crews and the auto pilot did it for me......sorry but not an informed comment. I say again unless you are married to or are a EK pilot at the moment you have no idea what they are experiencing .......siennachick has nailed it. And comparing the military to commercial flight crew....:confused: At times I would not see my DH for between 6 to 8 months at a time when he could find a contract. ETA word is that Air Arabia is reaching saturation , who do you suggest the EK pilots try next ? bearing in mind that EK employs a huge pilot body.

Jet lagged? Funny, because most of the pilots I know are out on the p*ss all the time - that's why they're flippin' tired. Too much parting - the single ones anyway. Long haul is a drag, but on many flights, they now have heavy crews that rotate during the flight, plus let's face it - autopilot, auto lands etc etc. I know a husband and wife team, both pilots on the A380 fleet, they really are passing planes in the night. Sorry FD we agree on many things but you are way out of line with this one. Unless you are married to a pilot or are a pilot with EK at present you have no idea , " I know a husband and wife team " does not cut it. I read your comment about rotation of heavy crews and autopilot to my DH his comment " ignorance is bliss isn't it "........ Note I was primarily talking about the 'single' guys, not the married ones. Well you know if they don't like it, they can always go to other airlines. Air Arabia pay MORE than Emirates and they only do short haul flights. Everywhere has their ups and downs, sure it's not what it used to be, but sadly there are more pilots than jobs out there right now. Sure lots of them moan and complain, and lots of the perks have now gone, but they're still better off than in many other places. Some people are better at dealing with the long haul and time zones than others. So maybe short haul is better option for those people. There's no question that those on main fleet have a tougher time than the A380 crews, who seems to have much more down time. But with the rate of expansion I don't think that's going to last long either. I am far from ignorant on the subject and probably am more informed than you think. You don't have to be married to a pilot to know things. I know people across the board including those poor folk who have to do their best to keep the crew happy, even though their hands are tied.

Jet lagged? Funny, because most of the pilots I know are out on the p*ss all the time - that's why they're flippin' tired. Too much parting - the single ones anyway. Long haul is a drag, but on many flights, they now have heavy crews that rotate during the flight, plus let's face it - autopilot, auto lands etc etc. I know a husband and wife team, both pilots on the A380 fleet, they really are passing planes in the night. Humped and Dumped by a Pilot then! LOL That was a really sh*tty comment to make! Actually my father was a Manager for Emirates for over 10 years!!! I have lots of close pilot friends, so I know well what they get up to. I'm actually married to a military man, if you think pilots have it tough, try not seeing your other half for 3 months at a time and the hellish conditions he has to ut up with, not to mention putting his life on the line. Keep your smutty opinions to yourself and shut the **** up!

oh doubting thomas, that was low :(. I do hope she is not on here. sorry - was tongue in cheek but I've removed it...

FairyDust?

Jet lagged? Funny, because most of the pilots I know are out on the p*ss all the time - that's why they're flippin' tired. Too much parting - the single ones anyway. Long haul is a drag, but on many flights, they now have heavy crews that rotate during the flight, plus let's face it - autopilot, auto lands etc etc. I know a husband and wife team, both pilots on the A380 fleet, they really are passing planes in the night. Sorry FD we agree on many things but you are way out of line with this one. Unless you are married to a pilot or are a pilot with EK at present you have no idea , " I know a husband and wife team " does not cut it. I read your comment about rotation of heavy crews and autopilot to my DH his comment " ignorance is bliss isn't it "........

oh doubting thomas, that was low :(. I do hope she is not on here.

Jet lagged? Funny, because most of the pilots I know are out on the p*ss all the time - that's why they're flippin' tired. Too much parting - the single ones anyway. Long haul is a drag, but on many flights, they now have heavy crews that rotate during the flight, plus let's face it - autopilot, auto lands etc etc. I know a husband and wife team, both pilots on the A380 fleet, they really are passing planes in the night. Humped and Dumped by a Pilot then! LOL

Jet lagged? Funny, because most of the pilots I know are out on the p*ss all the time - that's why they're flippin' tired. Too much parting - the single ones anyway. Long haul is a drag, but on many flights, they now have heavy crews that rotate during the flight, plus let's face it - autopilot, auto lands etc etc. I know a husband and wife team, both pilots on the A380 fleet, they really are passing planes in the night.

If we could I would be on the first plane available

Ok ladies.....I am sorry your contracts are shi# and Emirates people get housing and school fees! I don't know what to do, I can't help it, I actually wasn't whinning about pay and conditions, I was explaining how exhausted and jet lagged the Pilots are in response to the thread!! I appreciate everything I have and appreciate the contract we have! Like us if your not happy here leave! Life is to short to be unhappy as SueB says! Move back to your home country send your kids to the local school and pay reasonable rent by the month and live stress free!

My husband isn't a pilot and he got maximum 6 days off a month, his contract states that he should work minimum 60 h a week, it's Dubai it's harder out here. I am not crying and complaining, we knew what we signed up for.

In the four years we've been here DH has never had an annual flight home either and his housing allowance is 60k a year !

Sorry to hear that Buddha, your contract sounds sh#t!! I just have to ask.....why on earth are you here then?? I honestly feel bad for you.....we even legally and happily had to pay our house maid a trip back to her home country every 2 years!! However we paid for her to go back every year! If your on a International contract it is a labour law to pay for you to return to your home country every 2 years at least. I would check that if you are on a International Contract, I have school teacher friends that get a full ticket paid for to there home country. I understand if you signed a contract here in Dubai and are on a local contract you don't get a ticket. Actually even the ladies at the nail salon get a ticket home, I was speaking to one of them the other day as she was going home to see her kids.

Sienna chick...that's what I am saying...there are an awful lot of people out here who get similar to a pilots wage BUT then have to pay housing and schooling from it. I hear the bundled argument all the time but the reality is that many, many middle management jobs pay around 30k - included in this is meant to be an allowance for schooling and housing. So yes, I agree things have got tougher for pilots but others live on way way less out here. As SueB says I do have sympathy but I believe all the negativity accomplishes nothing. Ps it isn't law re flights home every year...our company doesn't pay...

If you are coming on a International contract wouldn't you go over the contract with a fine tooth comb and make sure school fee's were allowed for, accommodation etc? My friends that are non Emirates all say they get an allowance for schools and accommodation but it just comes in there salary? So they do get the allowances it just isn't paid directly to the school by the company? But because Emirates pay's it directly it seems people seem to think we are on a better deal? Also isn't it the law here you have to get accommodation or an allowance? So much to be grateful for, like I said, appreciate it all and always will, I am a positive person, but do get sick of people saying Emirates wives and husbands are a bunch of whiners and we should be grateful etc. It is not our fault your company doesnt pay school fee's etc again part of our salary package!!!! So while I understand people are envious of our "package" it may just be better bundled than other companies due to the large amount of employee's? There is good and bad in everyone's contracts anywhere in the world, I would think you would find out if school fee's and accommodation were included before I signed anything anywhere. Maybe your salaries are higher in monthly terms as it is included? A First Officer at Emirates is on 25,000 a month to start, so he then gets an apartment if no kids and if he has kids he gets a villa (you get told where to live) then Emirates pay a percentage of the school fee's and you cover the rest. I am sure your salaries are alot higher to cover the rent and school fees (western) up to 3 children. FO's get a family ticket in economy to there home country once a year (which I think is the law) yes we get staff travel, which should be a perk of the job if you are in the industry. But it isn't as cheap as you would think and the last time I used standby I waited 10 days at the airport to get to Australia. So not as glamorous as you would think..... So to sum it up I guess, everyone thinks everyone else is on a better package, grass is not always greener your packages I am sure have good and bad. Also if you leave Emirates before 5 years you have to pay the company $50,000 (150,000 dhs)

I always love threads where Emirates staff and spouses roll over each other to complain. They pay half price at most outlets in Dubai, fly cheap, still get housing whereas most of us don't etc. etc. Thanks You SueB for putting it all in perspective! Pay 10-40 % off at a number of outlets, not "half price at most outlets in Dubai"... because of a plan that [b'>they [/b'>pay into monthly. Out of their own pockets. Any large group of people could get together and arrange the same thing. You are right Sue but it is still a good deal and more than any of my colleagues get at another company in Dubai.

Holy Cow Ladies. Why are you all still here??? There are a whole lot of us who are happy here. We married pilots. Missing important times is the norm, always, shift work for heavens sakes. You signed on. Emirates is short of pilots right now. The 380 fleet has taken the Jam trips and the 777 is the workhorse of the airline so thats what they do... Air time. Max is 900 hrs a year, just like Europe. And fyi, in Canada it is 1,000hrs/hr.....24/7 operation here in Dubai. Meydan accommodation. I have been in them. It is not like a labour camp! went to a party at 'Motown'!! or really called Meydan south. So far the 1st 30 OLD PEOPLE have moved in and most are fine. Yes it is different but the area will grow quickly. Look at what people said about Silicon when they moved there!!! btw, the kitchens in 'Motown' are happy about the huge kitchens compared to what they came from. They seem to be very philosophical about the whole thing. Another excitment I guess. Sure as **** not labour camps for heavens sakes. Driving you get used to..no problem. What seemed like a long way eventually is no problem. I guess you have to ask your husband why he wants to come here. I certainly would not get stuck on pprune. As for planning, we have christmas when he gets home. Until we moved here he never had holidays in the summer. One year we spread out christmas out over 5 days lol....we holiday without him and he joins us. We try hard to be positive rather than live with this huge black cloud over our heads.. If we did that we would be so crippled by anger we would just have to leave :(..... So come. It is not a life sentence. You are not committing yourself to years of horrid living and livingin a slum.....If you are given a bunch of lemons....make the best lemonade you ever made. Make the best of what you have and run with it.!!!! Jump and Arm Pump . I have to add. If you start hanging with negative people you will eventually be pulled in. Find positive people who can work around things.....Look on the bright side of life!!! SueB, please tell what you're smoking so others can have a drag as well :biggrin: Sue B I am with you 100% here!

I think the reality is that for a lot of people life in Dubai has become a lot tougher and I agree things may be different for pilots now than a few years ago BUT I have many friends who look on the Emirates packages with envy. My husband earns what a pilot does but we get no assistance with school fees or housing and have to pay both from his salary...he works 4 day shifts...three days off then four night shifts...so yes, more of a routine than pilots but still pants..12 hr shifts aren't easy. I have many pilot friends and many non pilot friends...I know several of us non pilot ones look in envy at the pilots ( and yes our husbands can travel often as much as pilots) but I can also see how pilots and families are feeling the squeeze. When we are trying to pay school fees and rent from salary and then hear pilots complaining how tough times are we do find it rather galling. Rising school fees are a problem ..as until recently Emirates did cover cost of majority of school fees for up to three kids but with school fees rising I know many families are having to top up. As others have said, it is appreciating what we have and not looking at what we don't have. I do think it must be extremely galling to see conditions that you signed up for change and I have no idea how pilots deal with jet lag on top of the anti social hours. I think as SueB says..it is what you make of it and what attitude you take into it.

well ok, I understand where you are coming from but, they were not golden years. Maybe 20 years ago they were but we had to have a car loan and the company gave 50,000 interest free to get started. So we paid it off. As for coming debt free, we sold our house so paid off all our debts. I know things are more expensive, I do live here. Look, I do have compassion, the whole thing I have been speaking about is how very unhappy everyone on here seems...no one even looks for a bright side. IfI was wanting to come here after reading all this I also might change my mind. All I was trying to get across is there is another side. Yes the husbands are tired, mine included and because he is in his 60's a lot harder for him. He comes home now and can sleep for 12 hrs and goes to bed after breakfast the next day... yes he is exhausted, we try hard to make what we have work, it is not any easier than anyone else but we are here, we have to live here and we might as well try and find happy somehow. That is all I am saying. Am i judging? Idont think so, I am trying to counteract the negativity and the black cloud. I don't see how people can live with so much unhappiness and not try and change it somehow. My husband also had a 3 year bond. Our first actual summer holiday in 12 years was this past summer! we were stunned to say the least. I can count on him managing 2 actual whole christmas days in 12 years. We often had christmas on the 26th or 27th... I never said anyone was ungrateful. But I cannot understand why no one seems to be able to find a bright side. Right now, it is what it is :(...it cannot be changed but we can change how we deal and look at it. So I am sorry if you looked at it that way but that is not how it was meant. We try hard and have tried hard through the years here, when there were changes in the contracts, when hours were increased, when he was exhausted etc., we would discuss it, settle it in our minds and move along ...because we could not change it we had to change our mindset or we would have been pretty miserable here :( I do hope things change in the next few years for Emirates so things can be scaled back but until they do .........

No disrespect to you SueB and thanks for your kind words, however I presume and I apologise if I am wrong, but I think you came to Emirates many, many years ago when things were amazing, pay was incredible, hours were reasonable, annual leave whenever you asked.. If is different now especially with young kids on a FO salary, not just Emirates I am talking everyone in Dubai, rents are enormous, food is expensive, nappies, etc and cars well, what do you do when you first get here? You have to buy one? So of course you have to get a loan, most people come here because they have lost there jobs elsewhere so of course they can't come debt free. It is easy for us to "judge" people on there situation when we were here for the golden years when everything was easy! I feel sorry for the people with young kids and struggling to keep it together, how about some compassion instead of a lecture about living within there means. Imagine having young kids and your husband is away all the time, you don't know anyone, your living in a strange country with different cultures etc, expat's are different now, when I first moved here, you were welcomed with open arms especially on this forum, now you get slapped down and told you are ungrateful if you even mention you are doing it tough. Imagine after your husband finally comes home all you want to do is talk to him and as you say be kind and a wonderful wife, he is so exhausted he snaps at you and goes off to bed, would make you feel pretty lonely I think. Again it is not the pay the Pilots I know whinge about, it is the hours and exhaustion and lack of annual leave to recover and spend time with your family, as at the end of the day family is what matters, also remember the new joiners now have a bond to pay for 3 years or is it 5 years? So hard for them to just up and leave if they are so miserable. Please this world needs more compassion not judgement. Empathy and kindness goes a long way.

yup, have had the out of country mtgs for 6 years., 2 of them,. but that is our choice :) and we bought to retire, but again it is a choice, not something we can say omg we have to pay this and this and this... we bought what we can afford to work within our budget... if we had to leave here before next year, it might be tough but we could do it. so...yup...the mortgage is for our home country and that is our choice..we do not have a mtg here :) nor credit card debt, nor car loan. .....soooooo. horses for course lol... we live within our means. I have to add....we bought an investiment apt which pays for itself for the most part, and we bought our house which we have been renovating for 4 years...so..... horses for courses!! love that idiom but I am not quite sure it applies in this situation> hhmm

You are certainly not alone in being in 3 bankrupt airlines, so you will also understand that there is life after EK, which is why we chose to have a home away from the unstable ME. We need security and a safe place for our kids. Also when we retire, we want to retire at home. House prices are increasing all the time, so maybe the money you are saving now by not having a mortgage, you will end up spending on increased house prices . Just saying...it's horses for courses....

I am sooooo going to regret this. If you have a mortgage that is something you chose to do. If you have a large credit balance on a credit care, that is also your choice, car loans can be paid off in 3 years and why do you have personal loans??? all that tells me if you are living above your means. Kids in school I grant that one, it is not cheap but doable. Not many companies are hiring DECs you are right! so I think it comes down to quality of life. What are you willing to give up for the quality of life you want. We have been through 3 bankrupt airlines, started a life over again that many times, lost 2 pensions and soldered on. Our kiddo did not get to an expensive summer camp, not did he travel the world, we did not have a maid to clean and had one car. When we came it it was for the money... we sold our house at home and for the first time in 25 years we were totally debt free.! we have stayed that way. If it was unbearable for my husband we would have been gone a long time ago. But it was not...we moved with the times, he got paid and paid well , we have a nice accommodation, our major car is a 12 year old Honda Pilot.... we owe no money in the UAE.. I know it is tough for the 777 pilots, and it will not get better anytime soon until more pilots are hired. I know it is tough, I have been there, through the mill and out the other side. I feel bad for all of you :(...but I cant help you but you can help you....it is tough, I know...you miss him,you miss time...but...right now this is the way it is..... Know it will not always be this way, but for right now, this is your life!! you have a choice! to work with what you have, make your husbands time at home wonderful because you are it! you are his lifeline for now...you have the care of the kids...make it good...make the home good not bitchy..no one can afford that right now :(...It might **** you off having to do this but....this is what is on your plate right now. If you want/need to stay, then make the best of a bad situation that at this moment in time, you cannot change! Do not think for one minute I do not feel for you .....

Wife 777 thank you and to the others for the more thorough explanation. Agreed.......deafening silence from those who think pilots and their wives are living the high life at present.

Wife 777 thank you and to the others for the more thorough explanation.