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spongemonkey
Posts 20943
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17/04/2012 20:41:42
We also pay tax on a UK pension currently.
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cantona
Posts 584
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17/04/2012 20:36:26
amelia wrote:
All UK citizens are entitled to their state pension regardless of whether they have paid NI contributions or not. Being non-resident means we do not pay tax on the private pensions that we have in the UK.
My husband & I are non-resident but as our private pensions exceed the personal allowance in the UK we still pay tax
I advise anyone unsure of tax issues to contact HMRC website to ensure the correct information
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allatsea
Posts 56
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16/04/2012 18:03:28
Mrs O - having just left the UK and having tried to sell our property, I can tell you that (depending on where the property is of course) the market is fairly flat still - the 2 serious offers we got were not worth talking about so we have rented it out now - probably best anyway but if you do want to sell long term it is worth keeping an eye on house prices there.
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loube
Posts 720
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16/04/2012 17:33:07
spongemonkey wrote: However it remains that some people DO have the choice between paying Class 2 or 3 despite your situation, Loube, and it may be that Class 2 are cheaper.
This is relevant to Mrs Orchid who asked the question. From the link: What class of contribution to pay Voluntary Class 2: employed or self-employed abroad Provided the earlier conditions are met you can pay voluntary Class 2 National Insurance contributions if you are employed or self-employed abroad (but not if you are employed and already paying Class 1 contributions). In order to pay voluntary Class 2 contributions you must either have been: 'ordinarily' employed or self-employed immediately before you went abroad 'ordinarily' employed or self-employed but became unemployed immediately before you went abroad to work ('unemployed' means registered as unemployed with the Department for Work and Pensions and looking for work) Class 2 contributions have the following benefits: they count towards your State Pension when you retire they entitle you to the Employment and Support Allowance (previously known as Incapacity Benefit) and bereavement benefits when you return to the UK If you want to check whether you satisfy the conditions for paying voluntary Class 2 National Insurance contributions, contact National Insurance Contributions Office - International Caseworker. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ni/volcontr/abroad.htmedited by spongemonkey on 15/04/2012
she only asked if it was worth paying them, she did not say she was employed or self employed, so you could assume either way - if she is not working for a UK employer or self employed from Uk and therefore it will be £12+ per week if she is it will be £3 per week
whether it is worth it, well there is a time limit for making catch up payments, and only the pension forecast will tell her if she qualifies to pay catch up for missing months
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spongemonkey
Posts 20943
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15/04/2012 17:50:22
However it remains that some people DO have the choice between paying Class 2 or 3 despite your situation, Loube, and it may be that Class 2 are cheaper.
This is relevant to Mrs Orchid who asked the question.
From the link:
What class of contribution to pay
Voluntary Class 2: employed or self-employed abroad
Provided the earlier conditions are met you can pay voluntary Class 2 National Insurance contributions if you are employed or self-employed abroad (but not if you are employed and already paying Class 1 contributions).
In order to pay voluntary Class 2 contributions you must either have been:
'ordinarily' employed or self-employed immediately before you went abroad
'ordinarily' employed or self-employed but became unemployed immediately before you went abroad to work ('unemployed' means registered as unemployed with the Department for Work and Pensions and looking for work)
Class 2 contributions have the following benefits:
they count towards your State Pension when you retire
they entitle you to the Employment and Support Allowance (previously known as Incapacity Benefit) and bereavement benefits when you return to the UK
If you want to check whether you satisfy the conditions for paying voluntary Class 2 National Insurance contributions, contact National Insurance Contributions Office - International Caseworker.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ni/volcontr/abroad.htm
edited by spongemonkey on 15/04/2012
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loube
Posts 720
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15/04/2012 16:21:30
spongemonkey wrote: loube wrote: spongemonkey wrote: loube wrote: amelia wrote:
All UK citizens are entitled to their state pension regardless of whether they have paid NI contributions or not. It is almost five years since we left the UK and at that time we were advised by our accountant to fill in a form to say that we would be non-resident as we were not intending to return to live there any time soon. As we are non-resident we are not entitled to the annual increase on the state pensions we receive, nor any other additional payments. These are only payable if you live within the EC. Being non-resident means we do not pay tax on the private pensions that we have in the UK.
The NI contributions provide an increment on top of the basic pension based on the number of years you have contributed.
edited by amelia on 15/04/2012 You are entitled to the full pension only if you have completed 30 years of contributions, if not then you can use your spouses contributions. Failing that you will get a reduced rate. If you qualified for home responsibilities protection then that counts towards your 30 years. I contributed for 3 years out of the last 8, but stopped when the price went up to around £12 a week or something like that...so now I am not I think HRP is not applicable any more, and for pension credits it goes by the month now, and not by the year as previously. Whilst overseas you can only pay in class 3 which does not give you all the benefits you would be entitled to if you paid class 1 or class 2. You can pay Class 2 - we did. when I looked into it we were told we could not pay class 2 unless self employed (and I see from your previous post you were) and uk resident, this was by the non resident section of the national insurance place up in newcastle upon tyne. class 2 is only for self employed edited by loube on 15/04/2012 I don't know when you did this but ours was in 2005. My letter says " When you are abroad you are allowed to pay both Class 2 and Class 3 contributions..." We did because it was cheaper. Maybe they have changed it but there is a section on that link I posted before that suggests you still can : " How to pay voluntary Class 2 or Class 3 contributions for periods spent abroad There are special rules if: you're living abroad and you want to pay voluntary Class 2 National Insurance contributions you want to pay voluntary contributions for a past period when you were living abroad" edited by spongemonkey on 15/04/2012
Just checked and I got my pension forecast in 2007, I had 18 qualifying years......then paid up until 2009, as I was resident overseas and I was not employed before moving overseas or employed/self employed whilst overseas Class 3 was the only option available to me (I also had gaps in a tax year too)
edited by loube on 15/04/2012
edited by loube on 15/04/2012
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spongemonkey
Posts 20943
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15/04/2012 16:09:13
loube wrote: spongemonkey wrote: loube wrote: amelia wrote:
All UK citizens are entitled to their state pension regardless of whether they have paid NI contributions or not. It is almost five years since we left the UK and at that time we were advised by our accountant to fill in a form to say that we would be non-resident as we were not intending to return to live there any time soon. As we are non-resident we are not entitled to the annual increase on the state pensions we receive, nor any other additional payments. These are only payable if you live within the EC. Being non-resident means we do not pay tax on the private pensions that we have in the UK.
The NI contributions provide an increment on top of the basic pension based on the number of years you have contributed.
edited by amelia on 15/04/2012 You are entitled to the full pension only if you have completed 30 years of contributions, if not then you can use your spouses contributions. Failing that you will get a reduced rate. If you qualified for home responsibilities protection then that counts towards your 30 years. I contributed for 3 years out of the last 8, but stopped when the price went up to around £12 a week or something like that...so now I am not I think HRP is not applicable any more, and for pension credits it goes by the month now, and not by the year as previously. Whilst overseas you can only pay in class 3 which does not give you all the benefits you would be entitled to if you paid class 1 or class 2. You can pay Class 2 - we did. when I looked into it we were told we could not pay class 2 unless self employed (and I see from your previous post you were) and uk resident, this was by the non resident section of the national insurance place up in newcastle upon tyne. class 2 is only for self employed edited by loube on 15/04/2012
I don't know when you did this but ours was in 2005. My letter says " When you are abroad you are allowed to pay both Class 2 and Class 3 contributions..." We did because it was cheaper.
Maybe they have changed it but there is a section on that link I posted before that suggests you still can :
"
How to pay voluntary Class 2 or Class 3 contributions for periods spent abroad
There are special rules if:
you're living abroad and you want to pay voluntary Class 2 National Insurance contributions
you want to pay voluntary contributions for a past period when you were living abroad"
edited by spongemonkey on 15/04/2012
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loube
Posts 720
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15/04/2012 15:59:12
spongemonkey wrote: loube wrote: amelia wrote:
All UK citizens are entitled to their state pension regardless of whether they have paid NI contributions or not. It is almost five years since we left the UK and at that time we were advised by our accountant to fill in a form to say that we would be non-resident as we were not intending to return to live there any time soon. As we are non-resident we are not entitled to the annual increase on the state pensions we receive, nor any other additional payments. These are only payable if you live within the EC. Being non-resident means we do not pay tax on the private pensions that we have in the UK.
The NI contributions provide an increment on top of the basic pension based on the number of years you have contributed.
edited by amelia on 15/04/2012 You are entitled to the full pension only if you have completed 30 years of contributions, if not then you can use your spouses contributions. Failing that you will get a reduced rate. If you qualified for home responsibilities protection then that counts towards your 30 years. I contributed for 3 years out of the last 8, but stopped when the price went up to around £12 a week or something like that...so now I am not I think HRP is not applicable any more, and for pension credits it goes by the month now, and not by the year as previously. Whilst overseas you can only pay in class 3 which does not give you all the benefits you would be entitled to if you paid class 1 or class 2. You can pay Class 2 - we did.
when I looked into it we were told we could not pay class 2 unless self employed (and I see from your previous post you were) and uk resident, this was by the non resident section of the national insurance place up in newcastle upon tyne. class 2 is only for self employed
edited by loube on 15/04/2012
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spongemonkey
Posts 20943
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15/04/2012 15:45:59
salsB wrote: busybee2 wrote: salsB wrote:
I recently hired a car in the UK, I was asked for a utility bill, which I do not have, I said we lived overseas and produced my passport, the hire car rep, didn't question me, or even said it was illegal to drive.
How do other visitors manage to hire cars then???? with an uae licence. I don't want an UAE license thou. TBH I have never had an issue when hiring, I have even used my Dubai address on the hire paperwork, and haven't been asked for any other license.
I always use my UAE licence in the event of getting a speeding ticket then there are no black points on your UK licence.
edited by spongemonkey on 15/04/2012
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spongemonkey
Posts 20943
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15/04/2012 15:43:17
loube wrote: amelia wrote:
All UK citizens are entitled to their state pension regardless of whether they have paid NI contributions or not. It is almost five years since we left the UK and at that time we were advised by our accountant to fill in a form to say that we would be non-resident as we were not intending to return to live there any time soon. As we are non-resident we are not entitled to the annual increase on the state pensions we receive, nor any other additional payments. These are only payable if you live within the EC. Being non-resident means we do not pay tax on the private pensions that we have in the UK.
The NI contributions provide an increment on top of the basic pension based on the number of years you have contributed.
edited by amelia on 15/04/2012 You are entitled to the full pension only if you have completed 30 years of contributions, if not then you can use your spouses contributions. Failing that you will get a reduced rate. If you qualified for home responsibilities protection then that counts towards your 30 years. I contributed for 3 years out of the last 8, but stopped when the price went up to around £12 a week or something like that...so now I am not I think HRP is not applicable any more, and for pension credits it goes by the month now, and not by the year as previously. Whilst overseas you can only pay in class 3 which does not give you all the benefits you would be entitled to if you paid class 1 or class 2.
You can pay Class 2 - we did.
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spongemonkey
Posts 20943
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15/04/2012 15:40:27
Mrs Orchid wrote:
Thank you to for all your responses. I have learned a lot from all your experiences and want to say that EW members have a wealth of knowledge. It is nice to know we can help each other. Yes, it was my gut feeling that we should either hang on to it or change to a bigger property when we can afford it, for the sake of returning to it if need be and also for the sake of the children's uni applications etc. Is anybody paying into their NI contributions while abroad or do you think it is not worth doing?
You can write to the NI people and ask for a pension assessment - if eg you have already paid many years in, it may be worth paying off the remaining years that you need to qualify. We no longer pay as the number of years have been reached.
It's all on here.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/ni-abroad.htm
PS Also check the costs of each contribution - I remember that it WAS cheaper to pay the Self employed rather than the Class 3 contirbutions. Write for the forecast and they give you all the options.
Edited to add - or if you have gaps in your payment history...
edited by spongemonkey on 15/04/2012
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loube
Posts 720
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15/04/2012 15:39:14
amelia wrote:
All UK citizens are entitled to their state pension regardless of whether they have paid NI contributions or not. It is almost five years since we left the UK and at that time we were advised by our accountant to fill in a form to say that we would be non-resident as we were not intending to return to live there any time soon. As we are non-resident we are not entitled to the annual increase on the state pensions we receive, nor any other additional payments. These are only payable if you live within the EC. Being non-resident means we do not pay tax on the private pensions that we have in the UK.
The NI contributions provide an increment on top of the basic pension based on the number of years you have contributed.
edited by amelia on 15/04/2012
You are entitled to the full pension only if you have completed 30 years of contributions, if not then you can use your spouses contributions. Failing that you will get a reduced rate. If you qualified for home responsibilities protection then that counts towards your 30 years.
I contributed for 3 years out of the last 8, but stopped when the price went up to around £12 a week or something like that...so now I am not
I think HRP is not applicable any more, and for pension credits it goes by the month now, and not by the year as previously.
Whilst overseas you can only pay in class 3 which does not give you all the benefits you would be entitled to if you paid class 1 or class 2.
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spongemonkey
Posts 20943
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15/04/2012 15:36:08
gailmcphail wrote:
Does property ownership always count in ensuring your children are not treated as foreign students??? Or does it depend on the Uni....
depends on uni.
My understanding of this is that to be considered a home rather than international student, if you do not have a UK passport, you have to have been in the UK for purposes other than education for at least 3 years. There is a very long document published by the UKBA which details fee status for students. Most unis will ask for more information if there is any doubt on fee status and it is up to them to make the decision.
I was meaning British passport holders.
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spongemonkey
Posts 20943
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15/04/2012 15:35:01
loube wrote: spongemonkey wrote:
Your property brings you other benefits as well - it gives you a place to go to if it should all go tits up here. It gives you an address in the UK to show your connection to the UK re University applications so children are not treated as internationals, it gets things like applications for UK NI cards and driving licences sent to it too and it provides bills as evidence for easy bank accounts for student children as well.
And yes, agree with all of the below.
edited by spongemonkey on 15/04/2012 Does property ownership always count in ensuring your children are not treated as foreign students??? Or does it depend on the Uni....
If it is a main residence for you and you intend to return to it at some point. It is your degree of connection to the UK that is looked at and yes it varies from Uni to Uni.
http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/student/info_sheets/tuition_fees_ewni.php#cat1
All details here and look at the Definitions as that is the important bit! It says:
Box 3
Ordinarily resident
If you can demonstrate that you have not been ordinarily resident in the relevant residence area only because you were, or your ‘relevant family member’ was, temporarily working outside the relevant residence area, you will be treated as though you have been ordinarily resident for the period during which this was the case.
IE as in a father working here!
edited by spongemonkey on 15/04/2012
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spongemonkey
Posts 20943
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15/04/2012 15:33:02
Sue R wrote:
If you sold your UK property you would also be liable for Capital GainsTax, so this might have a bearing on your decision.
Not if you are not ordinarily resident in the UK and you sell before you return.
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amelia
Posts 1933
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15/04/2012 12:10:05
All UK citizens are entitled to their state pension regardless of whether they have paid NI contributions or not. It is almost five years since we left the UK and at that time we were advised by our accountant to fill in a form to say that we would be non-resident as we were not intending to return to live there any time soon. As we are non-resident we are not entitled to the annual increase on the state pensions we receive, nor any other additional payments. These are only payable if you live within the EC. Being non-resident means we do not pay tax on the private pensions that we have in the UK.
The NI contributions provide an increment on top of the basic pension based on the number of years you have contributed.
edited by amelia on 15/04/2012
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pollydxb1
Posts 1391
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15/04/2012 11:48:42
Is anybody paying into their NI contributions while abroad or do you think it is not worth doing?
I am, restarted paying to catch up about a year ago.
You have to pay in so many years to be entitled to a state pension.
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cymraes
Posts 2382
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15/04/2012 11:31:12
salsB wrote: busybee2 wrote: salsB wrote:
I recently hired a car in the UK, I was asked for a utility bill, which I do not have, I said we lived overseas and produced my passport, the hire car rep, didn't question me, or even said it was illegal to drive.
How do other visitors manage to hire cars then???? with an uae licence. I don't want an UAE license thou. TBH I have never had an issue when hiring, I have even used my Dubai address on the hire paperwork, and haven't been asked for any other license.
I don't think the issue is with the hiring of the vehicle it's is you have an accident and you are not a UK resident and then the insurance co will do everything not to pay, I have checked with a couple of insurance places and they really don't know the implications of your residency status and therefore assume as you have a UK licence it's ok. If you are 'resident' in the UAE then you are not resident in the UK. In actual fact, when I left the UK I was told by a very helpful lady at the DVLA that my UK licence should have been surrendered once my UAE one came through, or at least the UAE authorities should have taken it off me.
There was a really good thread about a year ago about this and it went on to discuss UK citizens who are UAE residents feeling they were entitled to NHS treatment (yes you are entitled to emergency treatment) but I seem to recall that even if you have a house in the UK you are not entitled to receive regular NHS treatment if you are non resident. That's what I have been told.
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salsB
Posts 7865
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15/04/2012 11:24:36
busybee2 wrote: salsB wrote:
I recently hired a car in the UK, I was asked for a utility bill, which I do not have, I said we lived overseas and produced my passport, the hire car rep, didn't question me, or even said it was illegal to drive.
How do other visitors manage to hire cars then???? with an uae licence.
I don't want an UAE license thou. TBH I have never had an issue when hiring, I have even used my Dubai address on the hire paperwork, and haven't been asked for any other license.
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busybee2
Posts 10392
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15/04/2012 11:22:51
gailmcphail wrote:
Does property ownership always count in ensuring your children are not treated as foreign students??? Or does it depend on the Uni....
depends on uni.
My understanding of this is that to be considered a home rather than international student, if you do not have a UK passport, you have to have been in the UK for purposes other than education for at least 3 years. There is a very long document published by the UKBA which details fee status for students. Most unis will ask for more information if there is any doubt on fee status and it is up to them to make the decision.
each uni will make up their mind, other people that i have known go through the process each is different, some unis will only look that you own a home in uk, some will require proof, some will count you as not resident etc etc, it really depends. yes if you are not british you should be in uk 3 years beforehand, but that sometimes still applies to british passport holders too, it really depends on how much the uni needs the student etc. there is no fixed rule that if you have a property that you are not classed as overseas but obviously it helps.
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busybee2
Posts 10392
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15/04/2012 11:20:37
salsB wrote:
I recently hired a car in the UK, I was asked for a utility bill, which I do not have, I said we lived overseas and produced my passport, the hire car rep, didn't question me, or even said it was illegal to drive.
How do other visitors manage to hire cars then????
with an uae licence.
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salsB
Posts 7865
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15/04/2012 11:17:13
I recently hired a car in the UK, I was asked for a utility bill, which I do not have, I said we lived overseas and produced my passport, the hire car rep, didn't question me, or even said it was illegal to drive.
How do other visitors manage to hire cars then????
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Mrs Orchid
Posts 368
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15/04/2012 10:52:30
Thank you to for all your responses. I have learned a lot from all your experiences and want to say that EW members have a wealth of knowledge. It is nice to know we can help each other. Yes, it was my gut feeling that we should either hang on to it or change to a bigger property when we can afford it, for the sake of returning to it if need be and also for the sake of the children's uni applications etc. Is anybody paying into their NI contributions while abroad or do you think it is not worth doing?
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gailmcphail
Posts 200
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15/04/2012 10:45:04
Does property ownership always count in ensuring your children are not treated as foreign students??? Or does it depend on the Uni....
depends on uni.
My understanding of this is that to be considered a home rather than international student, if you do not have a UK passport, you have to have been in the UK for purposes other than education for at least 3 years. There is a very long document published by the UKBA which details fee status for students. Most unis will ask for more information if there is any doubt on fee status and it is up to them to make the decision.
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busybee2
Posts 10392
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15/04/2012 10:36:54
loube wrote: spongemonkey wrote:
Your property brings you other benefits as well - it gives you a place to go to if it should all go tits up here. It gives you an address in the UK to show your connection to the UK re University applications so children are not treated as internationals, it gets things like applications for UK NI cards and driving licences sent to it too and it provides bills as evidence for easy bank accounts for student children as well.
And yes, agree with all of the below.
edited by spongemonkey on 15/04/2012 Does property ownership always count in ensuring your children are not treated as foreign students??? Or does it depend on the Uni....
depends on uni.
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busybee2
Posts 10392
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15/04/2012 10:36:08
Birki wrote: busybee2 wrote: spongemonkey wrote:
Your property brings you other benefits as well - it gives you a place to go to if it should all go tits up here. It gives you an address in the UK to show your connection to the UK re University applications so children are not treated as internationals, it gets things like applications for UK NI cards and driving licences sent to it too and it provides bills as evidence for easy bank accounts for student children as well.
And yes, agree with all of the below.
edited by spongemonkey on 15/04/2012 renewing your driving licence when you are not resident is illegal, as i know somebody who has just fallen foul of this rule, if you do it online it clearly states about how many days you are resident in the country, if you have a visa for here then you are not resident in the uk, so be aware. the dvla now look into this. Someone I know swears blind they can use their UK driving licence in the UK on visits home and get fully insured, is that right? I've always taken it that as I am not resident there it is void?
nope if you have an accident do you think the insurance company will find a way of not paying out.
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busybee2
Posts 10392
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15/04/2012 10:35:37
Sue R wrote:
If you sold your UK property you would also be liable for Capital GainsTax, so this might have a bearing on your decision.
think if you sell before you become resident then no cgt.
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loube
Posts 720
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15/04/2012 10:11:13
wendyone wrote:
Hi
Just to confirm on the CGT issue. I have recently been taking advice on this issue and UK property owners,, non resident for five full tax years NO CGT on sale..... the rules regards living there etc kick in if you still have the property when you become resident again, so if Mrs O was to sell now, she would have no liability
Good. I thought as much. I guess it is all about how long you are absent from the UK. 5 years is the cut off for tax liability for most things. So if you are less than 5 years you may be liable if you do not live in the property.
However if you return, and decide you need to sell the house and buy another one somewhere else, CGT would not apply either as it is your main home, whether you have lived in it or not as long as it is your only property.
edited by loube on 15/04/2012
edited by loube on 15/04/2012
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wendyone
Posts 75
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15/04/2012 09:55:28
Hi
Just to confirm on the CGT issue. I have recently been taking advice on this issue and UK property owners,, non resident for five full tax years NO CGT on sale..... the rules regards living there etc kick in if you still have the property when you become resident again, so if Mrs O was to sell now, she would have no liability
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Sue R
Posts 2244
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15/04/2012 09:50:44
loube wrote: Sue R wrote:
If you sold your UK property you would also be liable for Capital GainsTax, so this might have a bearing on your decision. only if it is your second home, and not your main home
If you have not lived in the property for two or three years - can't remember which, (which she hasn't), and you sell it without returning to live in it for a "reasonable period", to re-establish it as your principal residence, you will be liable.
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