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lal1
Posts 2088
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12/10/2010 16:54:11
summerdream wrote: pepps wrote: gi jane wrote:
ok, somewhat of a diversion, but............
since when did nut allergies become so popular? I am mid 40's, never heard of a kid having a nut allergy when i went to school
My kids are late 20's, never heard of any nut allergies when they were in school.
Curious as to when this nut allergy thing came about and why.
I am not being sarcastic, i just want to know. My daughter late 20's has a nut allergy so bad that if she has even nut oil she could die It was discovered when she was 3 month old so that was early 80's I actually got Lord Sainsbury to put on his Sainsbury cakes if they contained traces of nuts So it s not a new thing it was just not widely known Ditto. A lot of severe nut allergy sufferers may just have died in earlier days due to "unknown reasons". My 4 year old DD has the allergy and I am sure it didn't just come about in recent generations. Its just like 100's of other illnesses, diseases, conditions that were not understood well a few decades ago. I understand gJane's query is genuine, but its painful when people (who have access to the internet!) don't understand how severe her allergy is and give me lectures that I need to get her healthier so she can get over it! or how about "in our days everybody used to eat everything with no problems", "its all in my head", "get her to a good doctor", " don't go to doctors - get her on homeopathy", "you didn't eat well enough when pregnant with her", "you should have fed her everything when she was a baby you wouldn't have this problem" No amount of explaining works with some people, so I had to get rude with out-laws, who tried to feed her with food with nuts "to help me get over it" and now I work on "If you get nuts near her, you die!"
Children seem to develop nut allergies because they have been exposed to nuts at a much earlier age than generations ago where nuts weren't so readily available. My SIL has a nut allergy and even some breads, spreads and food cooked in oils can cause problems. It is also a problem with packets of salted peanuts etc as the allergic reaction can be caused by airborne particles (especially dangerous on airplanes etc)
A child in the school I worked at presented to me ( as the first - aider) with severe breathing difficulties - when I checked his medical check list I realised he had a suspected nut allergy - on investigation the class had been making sandwiches as part of a lesson - his half of the class had been making jam sandwiches but the other half had been making peanut butter sandwiches and whilst he hadn't touched or eaten any of the peanut butter the airborne particles had been enough to set of a reaction. Luckily a 999 phonecall brought an ambulance and medication within minutes. I'll not repeat the dressing down I gave the class teacher for bring a nut product into a NUT FREE school!!!
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summerdream
Posts 997
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12/10/2010 15:28:04
pepps wrote: gi jane wrote:
ok, somewhat of a diversion, but............
since when did nut allergies become so popular? I am mid 40's, never heard of a kid having a nut allergy when i went to school
My kids are late 20's, never heard of any nut allergies when they were in school.
Curious as to when this nut allergy thing came about and why.
I am not being sarcastic, i just want to know. My daughter late 20's has a nut allergy so bad that if she has even nut oil she could die It was discovered when she was 3 month old so that was early 80's I actually got Lord Sainsbury to put on his Sainsbury cakes if they contained traces of nuts So it s not a new thing it was just not widely known
Ditto. A lot of severe nut allergy sufferers may just have died in earlier days due to "unknown reasons". My 4 year old DD has the allergy and I am sure it didn't just come about in recent generations.
Its just like 100's of other illnesses, diseases, conditions that were not understood well a few decades ago.
I understand gJane's query is genuine, but its painful when people (who have access to the internet!) don't understand how severe her allergy is and give me lectures that I need to get her healthier so she can get over it! or how about "in our days everybody used to eat everything with no problems", "its all in my head", "get her to a good doctor", " don't go to doctors - get her on homeopathy", "you didn't eat well enough when pregnant with her", "you should have fed her everything when she was a baby you wouldn't have this problem"
No amount of explaining works with some people, so I had to get rude with out-laws, who tried to feed her with food with nuts "to help me get over it" and now I work on "If you get nuts near her, you die!"
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sibilla
Posts 42
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12/10/2010 14:32:07
We are not muslims but all the respect in the world for people who are...and i understand we are in a muslim country but i was just wondering where does the personal freedom end and the respect for religious choices begins!?
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Posts
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12/10/2010 13:14:51
Many years ago I bought some Maynards Wine Gums as part of a birthday present for a little friend of DD. To my horror and shame I didn't know that these were unsuitable due to gelatin and "wine" issues. The little girl to her credit just smiled sweetly and said "not to worry she give them out to her friends who could eat them. We were less aware in them days of religious / vegan restrictions and yes we sometimes got things wrong but there was never the fuss made then as there is now. Just a quiet explanation and education of issues rather than the indignant rantings that seem to be the norm now.
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Sleepy
Posts 1273
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11/10/2010 23:03:49
tallia wrote: xanzec wrote: tallia wrote:
Oh dear this thread reminds me of the time I went to a children’s birthday party, the mother hosting the party served pork hot dogs to all the Muslim children attending the party, when I pointed out that they should not be eating pork the mother said don’t worry the parents will never know. I was horrified to say the least. That's horrible. I would have told her off and tell the Muslim children not to eat! :p I took the hot dogs off the children and gave them some pizza. I could not believe she gave them pork on purpose, the other mums there thought it was highly amusing .
and Tallia sorry to hear that, crazy lady for being so insensitive / oblivious, I hope you said something back, I would have done after the initial shock !
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Sleepy
Posts 1273
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11/10/2010 23:00:49
Bird wrote: Kate one wrote:
My answer to the Ops question is that unless the school has specifically said no pork products, then it's perfectly ok to give ham sandwiches to your child in their lunchbox. Having lived in the Middle East for 26 years I have the utmost respect for the Islamic faith. When my children were younger they were well aware that if their lunch contained pork then they were not allowed to share with their Muslim classmates. They adhered to that, as far as I know. Exactly! And if my children's Muslim friends come for a play I don't serve ham sandwiches for a snack!
Yes ditto - exactly! Please let common sense prevail - everyone is different and it's great if we can teach our kids this and to respect other kids and people, we don't have to have all these silly rules. I am always explaining to my 2 DS (who are just 4 and 6) different things like some people go to a church and some to the mosque / muslims dont eat pork or celebrate Christmas but they have EID etc on and on and on and they understand and ask questions - it's how they learn and as long as we tell them important info like this they will appreciate all their friends ways from different countries and cultures !
They are gaining rich experience and insight living in such a multi cultural city - it's fantastic and they are very lucky. As another example during Ramadan I explained how Dad and I could not eat or drink out in the daytime as muslims are fasting and it's not very nice for them to see people eating etc and they really understood why. My kids know that muslims do not eat pork and they would also never expect to share other kids lunches so I really think that it should be fine - everyone is different and it's great if they appreciate that.
Good night all
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tallia
Posts 237
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11/10/2010 22:58:28
xanzec wrote: tallia wrote:
Oh dear this thread reminds me of the time I went to a children’s birthday party, the mother hosting the party served pork hot dogs to all the Muslim children attending the party, when I pointed out that they should not be eating pork the mother said don’t worry the parents will never know. I was horrified to say the least. That's horrible. I would have told her off and tell the Muslim children not to eat! :p
I took the hot dogs off the children and gave them some pizza. I could not believe she gave them pork on purpose, the other mums there thought it was highly amusing .
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xanzec
Posts 503
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11/10/2010 22:51:59
tallia wrote:
Oh dear this thread reminds me of the time I went to a children’s birthday party, the mother hosting the party served pork hot dogs to all the Muslim children attending the party, when I pointed out that they should not be eating pork the mother said don’t worry the parents will never know. I was horrified to say the least.
That's horrible. I would have told her off and tell the Muslim children not to eat! :p
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xanzec
Posts 503
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11/10/2010 22:50:14
scarlett78 wrote: Clairehdp wrote:
But the point is we are living in a Muslim country - pork products are not sold everwhere - I have no problem with my children having something different in their packed lunches other than a pork product - there's loads of other things they can have instead. I see it as a respect for the country we are living in - nothing more than that and I thought all schools would have had a no pork policy so I'm quite surprised to hear that thay don't! I agree totally with this post. If i were staying in a veggie society(this is just as an example pls!), I wouldnt send meat in my child's box for fear of offending somebody.They are kids after all,and there is bound to be sharing. I am surprised that normally the ladies on here are quite sensitive to so many issues, but not this one..
I was born and bred in a Muslim country. Went to school with many Muslim children as my schoolmates. We have no problems bringing or eating pork in school.
I do pack pork lunches for my boys to school but they know they can't share their food with their friends. They know that Muslims can't eat pork and Hindus don't eat beef.
We're living in a multinational/multicultural society. As per lemondrops reply, learning is both ways. How else will our children learn?
Its probably more the norm for us Asians to think that its okie as we've been living all our lives adapting to each others culture/religion compare to our Western counterparts. 
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tallia
Posts 237
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11/10/2010 21:50:38
Oh dear this thread reminds me of the time I went to a children’s birthday party, the mother hosting the party served pork hot dogs to all the Muslim children attending the party, when I pointed out that they should not be eating pork the mother said don’t worry the parents will never know. I was horrified to say the least.
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spongemonkey
Posts 20942
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11/10/2010 21:46:38
Bird wrote: lemondrops wrote:
We're muslim, and DD is too young for school. But I personally don't see why I should be offended if a child brings in a ham sandwich to school; it's not like he would be exactly waving it at her going "See? See?". Yes, there is the possibility that she might share a child's lunch, but she's a child and doesn't know better; I'm pretty sure when she goes to school, she will end up sharing and eating a lot of snacks that I wouldn't particularly approve of.
It would seem it would make a lot more sense to me to just ask her teacher to keep an eye on what she eats (not in a military sort of fashion) and then eventually teaching her that there are things that she is not allowed to eat once she is old enough. I suppose I have that attitude though because I know that she will most likely go to school in a non muslim country, so she will have to be the one who is aware of her culture and religious background.
edited by lemondrops on 11/10/2010 PLEASE READ THE ABOVE POST!!! This lady is Muslim, read what she says as I believe she speaks for most Muslims. It's the non-Muslims that object more and that in turn can be a bad thing for the Muslims. I cannot believe the utter rubbish I am reading on this thread, it is political correctness gone mad!!! We are talking about tolerance here! you cannot be serious!!! Use your common sense if you have any. Don't send pork in for parties, we are told not to for obvious reasons whether there are only 2 Muslims in the class or not (shocking one teacher said it's okay as they are in the minority). Pork is served in restaurants in the UAE and Muslims and non-Muslims sit side by side eating what they choose, isn't it great! Live and let live. Vive le difference!
Thank goodness for common sense! Well said, bird.
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Bird
Posts 1360
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11/10/2010 18:58:09
Kate one wrote:
My answer to the Ops question is that unless the school has specifically said no pork products, then it's perfectly ok to give ham sandwiches to your child in their lunchbox. Having lived in the Middle East for 26 years I have the utmost respect for the Islamic faith. When my children were younger they were well aware that if their lunch contained pork then they were not allowed to share with their Muslim classmates. They adhered to that, as far as I know.
Exactly! And if my children's Muslim friends come for a play I don't serve ham sandwiches for a snack!
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Kate one
Posts 682
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11/10/2010 18:46:04
My answer to the Ops question is that unless the school has specifically said no pork products, then it's perfectly ok to give ham sandwiches to your child in their lunchbox. Having lived in the Middle East for 26 years I have the utmost respect for the Islamic faith. When my children were younger they were well aware that if their lunch contained pork then they were not allowed to share with their Muslim classmates. They adhered to that, as far as I know.
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Bird
Posts 1360
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11/10/2010 18:36:00
lemondrops wrote:
We're muslim, and DD is too young for school. But I personally don't see why I should be offended if a child brings in a ham sandwich to school; it's not like he would be exactly waving it at her going "See? See?". Yes, there is the possibility that she might share a child's lunch, but she's a child and doesn't know better; I'm pretty sure when she goes to school, she will end up sharing and eating a lot of snacks that I wouldn't particularly approve of.
It would seem it would make a lot more sense to me to just ask her teacher to keep an eye on what she eats (not in a military sort of fashion) and then eventually teaching her that there are things that she is not allowed to eat once she is old enough. I suppose I have that attitude though because I know that she will most likely go to school in a non muslim country, so she will have to be the one who is aware of her culture and religious background.
edited by lemondrops on 11/10/2010
PLEASE READ THE ABOVE POST!!! This lady is Muslim, read what she says as I believe she speaks for most Muslims. It's the non-Muslims that object more and that in turn can be a bad thing for the Muslims.
I cannot believe the utter rubbish I am reading on this thread, it is political correctness gone mad!!! We are talking about tolerance here! you cannot be serious!!! Use your common sense if you have any. Don't send pork in for parties, we are told not to for obvious reasons whether there are only 2 Muslims in the class or not (shocking one teacher said it's okay as they are in the minority). Pork is served in restaurants in the UAE and Muslims and non-Muslims sit side by side eating what they choose, isn't it great! Live and let live. Vive le difference!
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fleur elise
Posts 31
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11/10/2010 18:16:47
It’s just so silly how are kids expected to learn tolerance if it’s a one way street. It’s a slice of ham in a sandwich, it’s not like they’re munching away on a **** trotter in full view of Muslim children
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gerrys
Posts 2549
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11/10/2010 18:04:25
lemondrops wrote:
We're muslim, and DD is too young for school. But I personally don't see why I should be offended if a child brings in a ham sandwich to school; it's not like he would be exactly waving it at her going "See? See?". Yes, there is the possibility that she might share a child's lunch, but she's a child and doesn't know better; I'm pretty sure when she goes to school, she will end up sharing and eating a lot of snacks that I wouldn't particularly approve of.
It would seem it would make a lot more sense to me to just ask her teacher to keep an eye on what she eats (not in a military sort of fashion) and then eventually teaching her that there are things that she is not allowed to eat once she is old enough. I suppose I have that attitude though because I know that she will most likely go to school in a non muslim country, so she will have to be the one who is aware of her culture and religious background.
edited by lemondrops on 11/10/2010
Yes you are right, the little kids don't show off their pork and ask people to see it. Once they get older they start throwing their pepperami sticks at muslim students.
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scarlett78
Posts 740
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11/10/2010 14:26:03
Clairehdp wrote:
But the point is we are living in a Muslim country - pork products are not sold everwhere - I have no problem with my children having something different in their packed lunches other than a pork product - there's loads of other things they can have instead. I see it as a respect for the country we are living in - nothing more than that and I thought all schools would have had a no pork policy so I'm quite surprised to hear that thay don't!
I agree totally with this post. If i were staying in a veggie society(this is just as an example pls!), I wouldnt send meat in my child's box for fear of offending somebody.They are kids after all,and there is bound to be sharing.
I am surprised that normally the ladies on here are quite sensitive to so many issues, but not this one..
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magicbeanza
Posts 1731
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11/10/2010 14:24:41
Generally I just avoid the pork section... the prices in there make me want to forego shopping all together
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Wendopia
Posts 1404
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11/10/2010 14:16:29
magicbeanza wrote: Smells wrote:
Just wondering why you think that pork is not exactly the healthiest of meats? Its only the bacon and fatty parts of pork that is unhealthy and you would definitely not want to eat every day. Lean pork these days is actually one of the healthiest choices of meat around and recommended. Lean pork maybe, but we were discussing pork ham, as in cold meat... so in that case turkey or chicken would have less fat in it, no?
I always buy lean pork ham, its healthy and much tastier then turkey ham
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magicbeanza
Posts 1731
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11/10/2010 14:08:18
Smells wrote:
Just wondering why you think that pork is not exactly the healthiest of meats? Its only the bacon and fatty parts of pork that is unhealthy and you would definitely not want to eat every day. Lean pork these days is actually one of the healthiest choices of meat around and recommended.
Lean pork maybe, but we were discussing pork ham, as in cold meat... so in that case turkey or chicken would have less fat in it, no?
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Smells
Posts 176
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11/10/2010 14:03:43
magicbeanza wrote:
If the no sharing policy actually worked then they wouldn't need to enforce the no nuts thing or the no ham thing.
I have found this debate very interesting as it hadn't even occurred to me not to send pork to school.
Although it isn't really an issue in our house as pork isn't exactly the healthiest of meats... I would rather pack in chicken or turkey than pork.
Just wondering why you think that pork is not exactly the healthiest of meats? Its only the bacon and fatty parts of pork that is unhealthy and you would definitely not want to eat every day. Lean pork these days is actually one of the healthiest choices of meat around and recommended.
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DesertRose1958
Posts 1926
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11/10/2010 09:59:19
bubble_trubble wrote: DesertRose1958 wrote: bubble_trubble wrote:
Bubble, I don't understand how whats being discussed could be racist even if the parents are saying 'stuff them and their funny ways, we'll eat pork/meat/or whatever, anyplace and anywhere we want to'. Ignorant, conceited, unfortunate, yes, but racist - no. We all have to get along in this world and where better for children to learn about other cultures than at school. Yes its great if people dont send ham etc to school where there are children who can't eat it - but surely its equally as great for those who don't eat it to say - ah well its something they do and I don't so lets just get on with accepting each others differences without making life all about me. Its an international school, not a faith school where people could be expected to follow the rules if they chose to send their children there.
If the dietry requirments of every faith was pandered to in an international school would there be anything left that a mum could put in a lunch box? It's all about raising awareness in our kids early in childhood as opposed to let them being ignorant especially when we are guests in a liberal islamic country... wen we can let go of pork ham in school where there are muslim frnds....why not!!! it's like why do we care??!!!! we will do wat we feel like... let others worry about their stuff!!!... empathy can take a back seat... gradually this flares in to lack of tolerance ...and rascist feelings!! Earlier we impart cultural awareness, tolerance, acceptance..the better...then it's again... I have the right to my opinion and the rest of the world as the right to theirs !!! Bubble I do understand and respect your approach to life but as someone who lives this life I fail to see what is racist about it and why in an international settings such as a school, certain groups, whether its Christians, Hindu's, Jews, or Muslims, should have more understanding given to them than others. I think its when you boil things down to the likes of a ham or beef sandwich being at the root of racism or intolerence - thats when racism and intolerence begins. It angers people and there's no need for it because you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Just my opinion of course
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lemondrops
Posts 3928
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11/10/2010 09:57:29
gleekfamily wrote: lemondrops wrote:
We're muslim, and DD is too young for school. But I personally don't see why I should be offended if a child brings in a ham sandwich to school; it's not like he would be exactly waving it as her going "See? See?". Yes, there is the possibility that she might share a child's lunch, but she's a child and doesn't know better; I'm pretty sure when she goes to school, she would end up sharing and eating a lot of snacks that I wouldn't particularly approve of. It would seem it would make a lot more sense to me to just ask her teacher to keep an eye on what she eats (not in a military sort of fashion) and then eventually teaching her that there are things that she is not allowed to eat once she is old enough. I suppose I have that attitude though because I know that she will most likely go to school in a non muslim country, so she will have to be the one who is aware of her culture and religious background. And vice versa...parents of non-Muslims children should say, that there might be children in their class whose parents don't eat pork because of certain beliefs. Isn't part of going to school and bonding with peers a chance for children to learn about the similarities AND differences between each other? I teach my son as much about respecting Islamic cultural practices...ie during Ramadan he wasn't allowed to eat or drink in public. He caught on right away and was the food/drink police for our family. I thought it was great that he made it a priority as soon as I told him that it was a part of respecting other people's beliefs.
Which is a very nice thing to do, and very respectful of the culture. I would be surprised and flattered at the gesture but I certainly wouldn't expect you to do it, and but wouldn't be offended if you chose not to. On the same token, I wouldn't walk offended out of a restaurant if the person next to me decides to order a ham sandwich or orders a drink with his meal. But may be this is on account of my living in non muslim countries and having non muslim family. As you would hope that by raising your children in an international environment your children were taught to be culturally sensitive, I would hope to teach my DD the flexibility to adjust to different environments as international as they may be, whilst maintaining her own cultural and religious identity.
edited by lemondrops on 11/10/2010
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tipahtertipu
Posts 242
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11/10/2010 09:51:19
i am a muslim and i don't get offended but with younger kids; yes they don't show off and say 'look look' and at some point they are bound to be nit picking their mates food etc and that's unfortunate and it wasn't done on purpose. and it can be avoided. but this is when parents comes in and play a part to instill that value of being considerate of people around them.
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gleekfamily
Posts 3621
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11/10/2010 09:49:34
lemondrops wrote:
We're muslim, and DD is too young for school. But I personally don't see why I should be offended if a child brings in a ham sandwich to school; it's not like he would be exactly waving it as her going "See? See?". Yes, there is the possibility that she might share a child's lunch, but she's a child and doesn't know better; I'm pretty sure when she goes to school, she would end up sharing and eating a lot of snacks that I wouldn't particularly approve of. It would seem it would make a lot more sense to me to just ask her teacher to keep an eye on what she eats (not in a military sort of fashion) and then eventually teaching her that there are things that she is not allowed to eat once she is old enough. I suppose I have that attitude though because I know that she will most likely go to school in a non muslim country, so she will have to be the one who is aware of her culture and religious background.
And vice versa...parents of non-Muslims children should say, that there might be children in their class whose parents don't eat pork because of certain beliefs. Isn't part of going to school and bonding with peers a chance for children to learn about the similarities AND differences between each other?
I teach my son as much about respecting Islamic cultural practices...ie during Ramadan he wasn't allowed to eat or drink in public. He caught on right away and was the food/drink police for our family. I thought it was great that he made it a priority as soon as I told him that it was a part of respecting other people's beliefs.
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BS Detector
Posts 1139
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11/10/2010 09:46:07
excellent post lemondrops
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Clairehdp
Posts 15149
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11/10/2010 09:45:22
mafimushkila wrote:
But christians shsouldnt eat meat on fridays... does anyone ever follow that these days? If school opened on fridays would they also ban meat on lunches on fridays altogether? Would they enforce it has to be fish? Would they have a collective lent and ban that food over lent? Its not possible to pamper every belief theres too many they just ask to use common sense
But the point is we are living in a Muslim country - pork products are not sold everwhere - I have no problem with my children having something different in their packed lunches other than a pork product - there's loads of other things they can have instead. I see it as a respect for the country we are living in - nothing more than that and I thought all schools would have had a no pork policy so I'm quite surprised to hear that thay don't!
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lemondrops
Posts 3928
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11/10/2010 09:44:11
We're muslim, and DD is too young for school. But I personally don't see why I should be offended if a child brings in a ham sandwich to school; it's not like he would be exactly waving it at her going "See? See?". Yes, there is the possibility that she might share a child's lunch, but she's a child and doesn't know better; I'm pretty sure when she goes to school, she will end up sharing and eating a lot of snacks that I wouldn't particularly approve of.
It would seem it would make a lot more sense to me to just ask her teacher to keep an eye on what she eats (not in a military sort of fashion) and then eventually teaching her that there are things that she is not allowed to eat once she is old enough. I suppose I have that attitude though because I know that she will most likely go to school in a non muslim country, so she will have to be the one who is aware of her culture and religious background.
edited by lemondrops on 11/10/2010
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bubble_trubble
Posts 1706
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11/10/2010 09:36:25
DesertRose1958 wrote: bubble_trubble wrote:
Bubble, I don't understand how whats being discussed could be racist even if the parents are saying 'stuff them and their funny ways, we'll eat pork/meat/or whatever, anyplace and anywhere we want to'. Ignorant, conceited, unfortunate, yes, but racist - no. We all have to get along in this world and where better for children to learn about other cultures than at school. Yes its great if people dont send ham etc to school where there are children who can't eat it - but surely its equally as great for those who don't eat it to say - ah well its something they do and I don't so lets just get on with accepting each others differences without making life all about me. Its an international school, not a faith school where people could be expected to follow the rules if they chose to send their children there.
If the dietry requirments of every faith was pandered to in an international school would there be anything left that a mum could put in a lunch box? It's all about raising awareness in our kids early in childhood as opposed to let them being ignorant especially when we are guests in a liberal islamic country... wen we can let go of pork ham in school where there are muslim frnds....why not!!! it's like why do we care??!!!! we will do wat we feel like... let others worry about their stuff!!!... empathy can take a back seat... gradually this flares in to lack of tolerance ...and rascist feelings!! Earlier we impart cultural awareness, tolerance, acceptance..the better...then it's again... I have the right to my opinion and the rest of the world as the right to theirs !!!
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tipahtertipu
Posts 242
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11/10/2010 09:35:49
Its an international school, not a faith school where people could be expected to follow the rules if they chose to send their children there.
i agree with you but with can't agree on this part: at the end of the day , faith school or not, a school has rules and fair for all to obey as it would be one sided to others who has follow that rules.
not so much of a racist, but i think it is good to instill in kids or even adults like us to be thoughtful. restaurants serves pork in their menu, but they are cooked and stored separated from the HALAL ones.
i have send my kids to school every morning with parents that are so in-considerate of others in their behaviour and it shows what they'd instill in their child. and true enuff, their child is right ****
edited by tipahtertipu on 11/10/2010
edited by tipahtertipu on 11/10/2010
edited by tipahtertipu on 11/10/2010
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