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hilsbils
Posts 1778
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19/10/2012 10:21:52
spongemonkey wrote: hilsbils wrote: spongemonkey wrote: hilsbils wrote: simpleasabc wrote: hilsbils wrote: Well hope you never need to but remember what I said  Ah yes.... Ill be on the first plane out of here to find my old doctors :-)
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spongemonkey
Posts 20943
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19/10/2012 10:19:09
hilsbils wrote: spongemonkey wrote: hilsbils wrote: simpleasabc wrote: hilsbils wrote:
My friend who works as a nurse in the NHS says that most doctors and hospitals turn a blind eye as the paperwork can be a hassle when they are busy. They just classify the person as a walk-in emergency or new patient. I'm sure. And to be honest, in my recent experience of NHS hospital emergency treatment for my geriatric demented mother, it's nothing worth having. I'm happier with her staying at home and being treated there by the GP who knows her - in fact, I would prefer an ambulance wasn't called to take her to the emergency dept of a local hospital, as it is usually an unmitigated disaster, with no cohesive treatment and no reference to her GP or community nurses, who are the ones who know her best. We get what we pay for unfortunately ! Its easier in Dubai to pick and choose and make the best informed choice of doctor and hospital, but with the NHS its harder. I am always very afraid of ending up on a trolley with some messy emergency problem, or catching one of those MRSI super bugs. Bleugh You have to remember that in Dubai there is a limited pool of doctors and many doctors that perform certain things ( and some very serious) here would not even be allowed to practice that thing in the UK. After a recent scary experience there is no way I would get anything done here. Putting Dubai aside, I had in mind comparing private vs public generally since I had had such poor experiences in the UK with the NHS, and much better care in SA & Ireland privately. Luckily I havent had major medical or surgical problems in Dubai (touch wood) but have found primary care pretty good so far.
Well hope you never need to but remember what I said
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hilsbils
Posts 1778
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19/10/2012 10:09:53
spongemonkey wrote: hilsbils wrote: simpleasabc wrote: hilsbils wrote:
My friend who works as a nurse in the NHS says that most doctors and hospitals turn a blind eye as the paperwork can be a hassle when they are busy. They just classify the person as a walk-in emergency or new patient. I'm sure. And to be honest, in my recent experience of NHS hospital emergency treatment for my geriatric demented mother, it's nothing worth having. I'm happier with her staying at home and being treated there by the GP who knows her - in fact, I would prefer an ambulance wasn't called to take her to the emergency dept of a local hospital, as it is usually an unmitigated disaster, with no cohesive treatment and no reference to her GP or community nurses, who are the ones who know her best. We get what we pay for unfortunately ! Its easier in Dubai to pick and choose and make the best informed choice of doctor and hospital, but with the NHS its harder. I am always very afraid of ending up on a trolley with some messy emergency problem, or catching one of those MRSI super bugs. Bleugh You have to remember that in Dubai there is a limited pool of doctors and many doctors that perform certain things ( and some very serious) here would not even be allowed to practice that thing in the UK. After a recent scary experience there is no way I would get anything done here.
Putting Dubai aside, I had in mind comparing private vs public generally since I had had such poor experiences in the UK with the NHS, and much better care in SA & Ireland privately. Luckily I havent had major medical or surgical problems in Dubai (touch wood) but have found primary care pretty good so far.
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spongemonkey
Posts 20943
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19/10/2012 09:21:58
DollyDuck wrote: Under the current Department of Health Regulations, anyone spending more than three months outside the UK is no longer automatically entitled to free NHS treatment," confirms Katrina Osman, broker with IHC International. "And, therefore, NHS charges may apply for any hospital treatment received. Those in receipt of UK state pensions, and who have previously lived in the UK for a continuous period of 10 years, remain entitled to some cover, although this is dependent on their current country of residence and length of time there." http://www.expatmoneychannel.com/node/286Many expats feel aggrieved at being charged for something they feel they have, as British citizens, an entitlement to, and throughout their working lives whilst in the country have paid up for through their National Insurance contributions. Whatever the rights or wrongs of these changes, it is now a fact that if you have become permanently non-resident in the UK, you have lost your entitlement to free treatment under the NHS. edited by DollyDuck on 19/10/2012
free treatment as in hospital - yes but you are still seen by a doctor as a " temporary patient" - I was in the Summer twice.
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spongemonkey
Posts 20943
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19/10/2012 09:20:52
hilsbils wrote: simpleasabc wrote: hilsbils wrote:
My friend who works as a nurse in the NHS says that most doctors and hospitals turn a blind eye as the paperwork can be a hassle when they are busy. They just classify the person as a walk-in emergency or new patient. I'm sure. And to be honest, in my recent experience of NHS hospital emergency treatment for my geriatric demented mother, it's nothing worth having. I'm happier with her staying at home and being treated there by the GP who knows her - in fact, I would prefer an ambulance wasn't called to take her to the emergency dept of a local hospital, as it is usually an unmitigated disaster, with no cohesive treatment and no reference to her GP or community nurses, who are the ones who know her best. We get what we pay for unfortunately ! Its easier in Dubai to pick and choose and make the best informed choice of doctor and hospital, but with the NHS its harder. I am always very afraid of ending up on a trolley with some messy emergency problem, or catching one of those MRSI super bugs. Bleugh
You have to remember that in Dubai there is a limited pool of doctors and many doctors that perform certain things ( and some very serious) here would not even be allowed to practice that thing in the UK. After a recent scary experience there is no way I would get anything done here.
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hilsbils
Posts 1778
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19/10/2012 08:19:07
What is also interesting is that any new resident who can show that they are working and living in the UK, even in their first month/weeks, would be eligible despite not having made many contributions by that stage.
In my experience with the NHS and having various treatments when living there, was that I had very poor primary and emergency primary care and care was superior / excellent at the 'consultant' stage when finally getting admitted as an in-patient. I had such rude and poor experience with overcrowded, surly GP;s back in the 1990s' that when I finally got some help (after much toing and froing), the consultant recommend I lodge a complaint. There was a big crackdown back then and I understand primary care has improved since then. At that time, with so many incorrect and apathetic visits and mistakes, I climbed on a plane and flew back to SA and paid privately (which wasnt expensive, relatively) and got excellent care and a proper diagnosis. (Broken coccyx, and fractured lower disc which was misdiagnosed as bowel cancer....and later PID!!!)
edited by hilsbils on 19/10/2012
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debliz
Posts 252
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19/10/2012 04:22:16
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2214173/Health-tourists-come-Britain-free-NHS-treatment-cost-taxpayer-40m.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/the-northerner/2012/aug/23/health-tourist-nigeria-manchester
This policy may be 'right' in some peoples' minds but why should some expats who have paid their contributions in the past be denied access while there are many many thousands who have never contributed a penny, live on benefits and have no intention ever of contributing to the system upon which they live and depend and which has, to a degree, been supported by the contributions of those who are now abroad and who have no access to treatment? Is this fair?
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RuthM
Posts 681
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19/10/2012 01:05:14
simpleasabc wrote: RuthM wrote:
Yes I knew. Otherwise all the people that come to the UK and get citizenship could just pop over whenever they want treatment. Only residents get treatment which makes perfect sense, regardless of if you are UK born or naturalised you can't just hop over whenever you want treatment. My mums local hospital has a sign to this effect at the door, so it's really not a hidden secret. If you are an ex-pat in Europe, including Switzerland, the above does not apply.
Yes The European Economic Area (EEA) is a free trade zone between countries of the European Union (EU), Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein. The regulations on access to healthcare in the EEA also apply in Switzerland. This comes under the European Union Reciprocal Healthcare Agreement hence the European Health Insurance Card. Which you can't get if you are not resident in Europe.
'Any person who is ordinarily resident in the UK, and is of British, other EU/EEA or Swiss nationality, is eligible for an EHIC.'
'The NHS is a residence-based healthcare system. Therefore, once you have moved permanently away from the UK you are no longer entitled to medical treatment under normal NHS rules.'
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simpleasabc
Posts 7273
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19/10/2012 00:56:52
DollyDuck wrote: Under the current Department of Health Regulations, anyone spending more than three months outside the UK is no longer automatically entitled to free NHS treatment," confirms Katrina Osman, broker with IHC International. "And, therefore, NHS charges may apply for any hospital treatment received. Those in receipt of UK state pensions, and who have previously lived in the UK for a continuous period of 10 years, remain entitled to some cover, although this is dependent on their current country of residence and length of time there." http://www.expatmoneychannel.com/node/286Many expats feel aggrieved at being charged for something they feel they have, as British citizens, an entitlement to, and throughout their working lives whilst in the country have paid up for through their National Insurance contributions. Whatever the rights or wrongs of these changes, it is now a fact that if you have become permanently non-resident in the UK, you have lost your entitlement to free treatment under the NHS. edited by DollyDuck on 19/10/2012
Please read what I posted earlier, what you are saying is a misinterpretation. It depends on your definition of an ex-pat.
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RuthM
Posts 681
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19/10/2012 00:56:51
hilsbils wrote: simpleasabc wrote: hilsbils wrote:
My friend who works as a nurse in the NHS says that most doctors and hospitals turn a blind eye as the paperwork can be a hassle when they are busy. They just classify the person as a walk-in emergency or new patient. I'm sure. And to be honest, in my recent experience of NHS hospital emergency treatment for my geriatric demented mother, it's nothing worth having. I'm happier with her staying at home and being treated there by the GP who knows her - in fact, I would prefer an ambulance wasn't called to take her to the emergency dept of a local hospital, as it is usually an unmitigated disaster, with no cohesive treatment and no reference to her GP or community nurses, who are the ones who know her best. We get what we pay for unfortunately ! Its easier in Dubai to pick and choose and make the best informed choice of doctor and hospital, but with the NHS its harder. I am always very afraid of ending up on a trolley with some messy emergency problem, or catching one of those MRSI super bugs. Bleugh
Well of course, in Dubai you have private doctors, how can you compare this to the NHS? I find it so strange people try to compare it. As someone who has never had to use the NHS and had private healthcare since birth I can assure you the private healthcare here is shockingly bad. All the gear and no idea is what springs to mind.
Not many good doctors would come to a region where they are completely isolated from any kind of teaching hospitals, medical network or development opportunities (medically not managerially). But they advertise nicely so I guess you can say it's easier to make an informed choice - if you think commercial advertising is an informed choice. I absolutely avoid doctors here, they are so scalpel happy it is beyond belief.
So far DH who saw one of the best knee surgeons in the UK (who does over 400 knee arthroscopies a year) before coming out here and was informed he needed physio no surgery. Upon arrival we had to get a local referral for physio we were sent from the GP to see another orthopaedic guy who insisted he needed another MRI and surgery, ironically his surgery book was empty and he could fit him in the next day! I have a bulging lumbar and cervical disc with annular tear but no neuro symtoms or root impingement. I saw a top Rheumatologist in the UK, OBE and founding member of the British Society of Rehabilitation Medicine also a chief medical officer in the GB Army that specialised in injury rehabilitation. He said no surgery required, exercise, physio and rest from extreme sports. I stormed out the surgery of the doctor here after he wanted to do yet another MRI, an x-ray, give ibuprofen injections, cortisol and refer to a neurosurgeon for surgery - a neurosurgeon with no neuro symptoms?!!! I had the unfortunate experience of seeing the same idiot this week for my neck and went through the same palaver all over again, and I cannot tell you how much he was pushing for all these unnecessary scans and surgery. From what I can tell the doctors here are only interested in telling people they are sicker than they are and lining their own pockets with the kickbacks they get from scans and referrals.
There is a good reason why most of the middle east wealthy go to Europe and America for treatment and it's not because Dubai is too expensive nor is it to make use of the NHS (they go private).
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DollyDuck
Posts 146
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19/10/2012 00:44:30
Under the current Department of Health Regulations, anyone spending more than three months outside the UK is no longer automatically entitled to free NHS treatment," confirms Katrina Osman, broker with IHC International. "And, therefore, NHS charges may apply for any hospital treatment received. Those in receipt of UK state pensions, and who have previously lived in the UK for a continuous period of 10 years, remain entitled to some cover, although this is dependent on their current country of residence and length of time there."
http://www.expatmoneychannel.com/node/286
Many expats feel aggrieved at being charged for something they feel they have, as British citizens, an entitlement to, and throughout their working lives whilst in the country have paid up for through their National Insurance contributions.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of these changes, it is now a fact that if you have become permanently non-resident in the UK, you have lost your entitlement to free treatment under the NHS.
edited by DollyDuck on 19/10/2012
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hilsbils
Posts 1778
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19/10/2012 00:24:50
simpleasabc wrote: hilsbils wrote:
My friend who works as a nurse in the NHS says that most doctors and hospitals turn a blind eye as the paperwork can be a hassle when they are busy. They just classify the person as a walk-in emergency or new patient. I'm sure. And to be honest, in my recent experience of NHS hospital emergency treatment for my geriatric demented mother, it's nothing worth having. I'm happier with her staying at home and being treated there by the GP who knows her - in fact, I would prefer an ambulance wasn't called to take her to the emergency dept of a local hospital, as it is usually an unmitigated disaster, with no cohesive treatment and no reference to her GP or community nurses, who are the ones who know her best.
We get what we pay for unfortunately ! Its easier in Dubai to pick and choose and make the best informed choice of doctor and hospital, but with the NHS its harder. I am always very afraid of ending up on a trolley with some messy emergency problem, or catching one of those MRSI super bugs. Bleugh
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simpleasabc
Posts 7273
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19/10/2012 00:19:19
hilsbils wrote:
My friend who works as a nurse in the NHS says that most doctors and hospitals turn a blind eye as the paperwork can be a hassle when they are busy. They just classify the person as a walk-in emergency or new patient.
I'm sure. And to be honest, in my recent experience of NHS hospital emergency treatment for my geriatric demented mother, it's nothing worth having. I'm happier with her staying at home and being treated there by the GP who knows her - in fact, I would prefer an ambulance wasn't called to take her to the emergency dept of a local hospital, as it is usually an unmitigated disaster, with no cohesive treatment and no reference to her GP or community nurses, who are the ones who know her best.
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hilsbils
Posts 1778
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19/10/2012 00:13:07
My friend who works as a nurse in the NHS says that most doctors and hospitals turn a blind eye as the paperwork can be a hassle when they are busy. They just classify the person as a walk-in emergency or new patient.
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simpleasabc
Posts 7273
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19/10/2012 00:09:36
RuthM wrote:
Yes I knew. Otherwise all the people that come to the UK and get citizenship could just pop over whenever they want treatment. Only residents get treatment which makes perfect sense, regardless of if you are UK born or naturalised you can't just hop over whenever you want treatment. My mums local hospital has a sign to this effect at the door, so it's really not a hidden secret.
If you are an ex-pat in Europe, including Switzerland, the above does not apply.
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simpleasabc
Posts 7273
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19/10/2012 00:08:08
Depends where the "ex-pats" are now resident or how long they have been away from the UK:
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/healthcare_e/healthcare_help_with_health_costs_e/nhs_charges_for_people_from_abroad.htm
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RuthM
Posts 681
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19/10/2012 00:06:43
Yes I knew. Otherwise all the people that come to the UK and get citizenship could just pop over whenever they want treatment. Only residents get treatment which makes perfect sense, regardless of if you are UK born or naturalised you can't just hop over whenever you want treatment. My mums local hospital has a sign to this effect at the door, so it's really not a hidden secret.
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BedShrimp
Posts 88
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30/05/2012 10:49:43
I certainly wouldn't expect to get free NHS treatment being an expat, living in a different country tax free...
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roysie
Posts 1022
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30/05/2012 08:57:04
Sugarbeach wrote: Sue62 wrote: PlainJane wrote:
When talking to people here there are so many that are still getting child benefit , how the **** do they do that . You have left the country and are not entitled to it , infact your not entitled to anything . Also people talk of going back home with the kids cause things are tight here and they will get this benefit and that benefit but I know people that went back three years ago when the bubble burst and because her kids were born here she got nothing unitil they had lived back in uk for 9/12months so why do some get it and some don't ? They lie...  ...so shocked.
It will catch up with them eventually.... and then who will be laughing.
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ishehere
Posts 1704
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30/05/2012 08:51:52
twilight wrote: Sugarbeach wrote:
... there are many people resident in the UK who don't pay taxes and positively milk those who do through the benefits system and are still entitled to NHS. There’s no difference between a benefits thief and someone that is using the NHS when they shouldn’t.
Big fat like....... both should be made to do community service until said money is repaid.
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Sugarbeach
Posts 2987
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30/05/2012 07:17:22
Sue62 wrote: PlainJane wrote:
When talking to people here there are so many that are still getting child benefit , how the **** do they do that . You have left the country and are not entitled to it , infact your not entitled to anything . Also people talk of going back home with the kids cause things are tight here and they will get this benefit and that benefit but I know people that went back three years ago when the bubble burst and because her kids were born here she got nothing unitil they had lived back in uk for 9/12months so why do some get it and some don't ? They lie...
...so shocked.
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Sue62
Posts 7175
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29/05/2012 21:45:42
PlainJane wrote:
When talking to people here there are so many that are still getting child benefit , how the **** do they do that . You have left the country and are not entitled to it , infact your not entitled to anything . Also people talk of going back home with the kids cause things are tight here and they will get this benefit and that benefit but I know people that went back three years ago when the bubble burst and because her kids were born here she got nothing unitil they had lived back in uk for 9/12months so why do some get it and some don't ?
They lie...
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PlainJane
Posts 299
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29/05/2012 19:32:52
When talking to people here there are so many that are still getting child benefit , how the **** do they do that . You have left the country and are not entitled to it , infact your not entitled to anything . Also people talk of going back home with the kids cause things are tight here and they will get this benefit and that benefit but I know people that went back three years ago when the bubble burst and because her kids were born here she got nothing unitil they had lived back in uk for 9/12months so why do some get it and some don't ?
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twilight
Posts 618
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29/05/2012 17:56:17
Sugarbeach wrote:
... there are many people resident in the UK who don't pay taxes and positively milk those who do through the benefits system and are still entitled to NHS.
There’s no difference between a benefits thief and someone that is using the NHS when they shouldn’t.
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spongemonkey
Posts 20943
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29/05/2012 17:46:04
There is a difference between" getting ill" while visiting the UK and going there specifically to have treatment e.g. surgery.
The NHS does cover the first scenario for anyone!
The second thing is what they do not provide for.
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Dragon
Posts 1962
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29/05/2012 17:15:06
I had to see a doctor when I was there couple weeks ago and was ready to pay for the treatment and claim it off my health insurance. However, I went to my in-laws surgery and told them I was visiting and all I had to do was complete a temporary stay form and only thing I had to pay for was the prescription.
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busybee2
Posts 10392
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29/05/2012 11:42:28
Sue62 wrote:
This refers to foreign nationals - no mention of expats... In which case it's about time too !!
it does mention expats its for all that have not lived in uk for 1 year but it will depend on which area you live in. its always been the case but its doctor dependant in the past they get paid for each name on their list, so if you dont actually live there they are being paid money for nothing if you do not use their service etc,
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busybee2
Posts 10392
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29/05/2012 11:41:11
yes its always been the case if you have lived abroad for over 5 years, it just hasnt been implemented. although now they are saying you have to live for 1 year, it really depends on your gp etc, as if you are moving over to live and then fall pregnant what would happen there, would you have to cross your legs for 4 months lol
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Hugsys
Posts 618
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29/05/2012 11:27:39
mushypeas wrote: Hugsys wrote:
Even I was asked from the hospitals I contacted to provide evidence I have lived in UK for 12 months which could be bills, bank statement etc or evidence I am permanently moving back (income support application, shipping of goods receipt, proof of overseas home sale etc). But of course I was only asked for this as I had to mention living in Dubai so I could provide my medical history to them.
If you have a paper trail you are fine.
Ethically speaking I've worked since i was 17 and never had any medical problems apart from the odd cold so if I had to go back to UK and claim free NHS, no I would not feel bad. I've paid alot of taxes there and still pay my mortgage, bills, council tax etc for our home there.
What baffles me is how women get away with traveling back to UK as late as 35 weeks pg and deliver on the NHS no questions asked. How do they get away with that even if you havent mentioned living abroad. Surely they will question why your not registered with a hospital by now... I think they play dumb and say that they didnt know they were preggy
At 27 weeks my belly is so big it seems I'm hiding a watermelon or two in there. I have no idea how they would get away with that.
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CAPTAIN AMERICA !!
Posts 1664
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29/05/2012 11:17:18
Hugsys wrote:
What baffles me is how women get away with traveling back to UK as late as 35 weeks pg and deliver on the NHS no questions asked. How do they get away with that even if you havent mentioned living abroad. Surely they will question why your not registered with a hospital by now...
I think they pretend that they are from another area in the UK, and went into labour early.
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