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Posts 183



21/03/2012 19:22:49
jemari wrote:
We have, however, just discovered that our LL does not have the Title Deed for the property and a Nakheel representative says we can't have any access passes, even when the service charges are shown as paid, because we can't get our contract approved by RERA without the Title Deed. This is not my understanding of what RERA said, but, to my knowledge, RERA has not yet published its decision..


This is not quite true. RERA doesn't really care about the Title Deed (which btw not many owners hold). All they are interested in is a Plot Number. Apparently the only document mentioning the plot number is the Title Deed. End of the road? Well, we live after all in 21 st century. Time of data bases.

Go to RERA, first floor, second room to the right. Ask the guy sitting in there for your plot number. Couple of keyboard clicks later you have the number.

Go downstairs and get your contract attested.


SarahPalmJumeirah
Posts 2



21/03/2012 18:36:21
Hi there, I am a Lettings agent and I specialise in The Palm Jumeirah area. I will not take on any rental properties on the Shoreline Apartments unless the landlord gives me a full print-out of their service charge account to prove they are up to date. I cross reference this will the management office in Al Sultana.

If you have been forced to end your tenancy with your current landlords over the ongoing conflict of beach access I can be off assistance. I have found recently that many ex-shoreline residents I have spoken to are deciding to re-locate to the popular Marina Residence development at the top of the trunk. You get value for money and a superb finish - a C Type (2 bed plus maids 1808 sqft) for instance with Burj Al Arab and seaviews would fetch around 140,000.00AED and landlords are flexible on cheques.

There are many mickey mouse agents that are still marketing apartments that are in arrears - a word of advice ask for proof get the agent to show you that there are no arrears.


Good luck xxx


Halle1
Posts 100



11/01/2012 09:12:52
We'd lived in an apartment Emaar owned. Our LL also hasnt paid his service charge. I wish were informed about this (unpaid service charge) by state agent who showed us the apt or the previous tenant whom I met when I went viewing. I would then have not taken this apt.
What happenned now in this apt, Emaar quietly put up a note inside elevator about this (denial of service and urge tenant to contact LL) but at the same time, I can't use my entry card anymore (other tenants with paid service can still enter, no problem)!
So, as my rent has expired this month, we decided to move somewhere else. And next time I move to apt, before I sign the contract, I will ask the LL to provide the proof that he/she has paid the service charge. Maybe better, if I can pay 4 cheques in a year (as normally this Service charge paid quarterly by LL to developer like Emaar).
I might loose my deposit from LL, as when there's new tenants viewing our apt, we secretly advise them to check the service charge.


jemari
Posts 4



10/01/2012 22:38:40
IzzyDubai

Yes, our landlord has screwed up without realising it, but Nakheel won't listen to reason. It wasn't deliberate, it was a mistake. And we are the ones who suffer. And Nakheel couldn't care less. So much for Nakheel "working for the good of the community" as it claims. A decent amount of notice to the landlord, along with a bill for outstanding service charges, which he didn't get, would have helped resolve this in a more professional way.

Nakheel also cleared the beaches of all personal belongings with very short notice. We were away for a week at the time and came back to find our almost new sun loungers gone. The communal ones are all broken and there are not enough to cater for the number of people who want to use them. Nakheel promised to put new ones out within two weeks. That was October. Nothing has changed. But that was because Nakheel thought it could open up a private club at the time and charge non-residents to have access, as well as charge existing residents yet more money to have something we already enjoyed inclusive of our high rents.

Nakheel just changed the rules in order to make more money out of the Shoreline, breaking promises to owners and investors along the way. You think that's OK? How sad. That is exactly what is wrong with Nakheel, it is all about making money and not at all about being professional or listening to reason.
edited by jemari on 10/01/2012


Desertedbeach
Posts 57



10/01/2012 16:59:19
We terminated our lease yesterday. Life is too short to live with this ****. We can't get the new access cards as my new visa hasn't come through and we need a visa copy. No amount of explaining to the **** in the nakheel office makes the slightest difference.

So with the option of being locked out of our building we took the sane route... Bye bye shoreline. Good luck. You're gonna need it.


IzzyDubai
Posts 550



10/01/2012 15:34:01
Jemari, so your LL didn't pay, hasn't registered his title deeds with RERA and this is Nakheel's fault how??

Sorry but your LL is the one who is scr3wing you over, not Nakheel.


jemari
Posts 4



10/01/2012 15:21:59
I think it is really unfair of Nakheel and RERA to penalise Shoreline tenants, like ourselves, by barring us from accessing facilities that are included in the high rent we pay, because our LL (who lives abroad and is difficult to reach) had not paid his service charges. We decided to pay a premium rate for living here, simply because it included the facilities.

We paid our rent 12 months in advance when we renewed our contract in July. At renewal, we had our original passes which gave us access to everything as well as a parking access card.

Since December 15th, we have been unable to use any of the facilities without paying an extra, non-refundable 900 AED per week to Nakheel. Our LL finally paid everything outstanding at the end of December, but Nakheel has not yet recognised this payment.

We have, however, just discovered that our LL does not have the Title Deed for the property and a Nakheel representative says we can't have any access passes, even when the service charges are shown as paid, because we can't get our contract approved by RERA without the Title Deed. This is not my understanding of what RERA said, but, to my knowledge, RERA has not yet published its decision.

Nakheel has stock piled dozens of new sun loungers, which we were told would be on the beach in October last year. To have to pay an extra 900 AED to access a beach that has very few sun loungers, and most of those are broken, knowing that there are dozens of new loungers being hidden, just adds insult to injury. Nakheel wheeled out the new ones for just one day, to take photographs for their promotional brochure of the Beach Club, from which they intended to offer membership to non-residents of this exclusive area!

To add to our woes, we have been told that from January 15th, Nakheel are introducing new access passes which will also operate the internal doors, car park barriers, etc. We can't get these until the Title Deed is sorted out either, which will take two months. So we will be pretty much prisoners in our apartment, unable to move within the building, other than to leave it. And with nowhere to park our car either, even though a space is included in our contract.

We have also paid a lot of money to furnish this apartment, which is galling, and were really happy here until all this arose. I think we are going to have no other option but to move somewhere else ... probably not even in Dubai. Nakheel doesn't listen to reason (that is WHEN anyone picks up the phone). These issues have been completely outside of our control and I have become very disillusioned about living here because of it.


spongemonkey
Posts 21079



05/01/2012 20:25:44
Oh dear god...enough confusion with DEWA as it is......


Patriotic
Posts 68



05/01/2012 16:31:27
I just thought of how this can be resolved (not sure about backdated but let's say going forward)

The service charges are paid through Dewa like housing fees are!

There is a separate section fpr service charges and which company they are ultimately passed on to (nakheel, Emaar ettc)

Who pays this is sorted out between ll and tenant at start of contract and rents reduced accordingly to the tenant if required etc.

If it is not paid then electricity etc are cut off within a month in the usual way that Dewa would operate if not paid.


Desertedbeach
Posts 57



30/12/2011 09:03:36
debliz wrote:
http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/name-and-shame-at-shoreline


Love the newspapers here... So on the ball. They posted those name and shame lists up weeks ago. Must have been a slow news day.


debliz
Posts 256



30/12/2011 01:43:01

Sanddy_Dogg
Posts 9162



29/12/2011 12:29:38
As if I would forget you....


Al Quwatain
Posts 680



29/12/2011 12:19:12
Sanddy_Dogg wrote:
(and AQ)
good job you said that POW POW


Sanddy_Dogg
Posts 9162



29/12/2011 12:18:24
Thanks Genie (and AQ)


GattaMatta
Posts 409



29/12/2011 09:23:14
As long as threats and bullying are considered standard and legal credit collection tecniques, there is not much to add.


spongemonkey
Posts 21079



28/12/2011 21:58:47
From that link:

Ali Rashid Lootah, Chairman of Nakheel, has said the company plans to complete nine projects, with an investment of Dh8 billion, in the near term. Among the projects proposed to complete in the near-term are Al Furjan Jumeirah Village, Jumeirah Park, Jumeirah Heights, Jumeirah Island, Vento and Badra.

Now that's a name...we used to have a music teacher called Mrs Howling.....


Desertedbeach
Posts 57



28/12/2011 20:54:08
Edna you are like a dog with a bone. Why wouldn't any company look to copy a more successful one? Works in my business and happens ALL the time. I guess narrow minded know it all companies might mistakenly believe they are above that in their misguided arrogance...and that certainly matches the public profile of Nakheel so...

This came out yesterday:

http://www.emirates247.com/property/discovery-gardens-owners-warned-2011-06-12-1.402158

At least we have "only" been denied acess to the beach and pools... These people could face being locked out of the building.

nakheel - not learning anything from anyone, even if it means getting really bad press and then not even learning from that.


flydiver11
Posts 592



28/12/2011 13:01:19
IzzyDubai wrote:
flydiver11 wrote:

They could have allowed tennants that had paid their rent in advance, prior to Nakheels decision, access to the beach until the end of their contract. .


Seriously, so you think that it's acceptable for Nakheel to assist someone who owes them money to make money?? This is what you are saying.......


@IzzyDubai.... Acttually I am saying that Nakheel could have been alot clearer in their intensions and charges well in advance of implementing their decision. Therefore allowing tennants that were renewing their contracts and prospective tennants to make an informed decision, hence punishing the LLs that have not paid (by leaving them with an empty property), not the tennants that have paid in advance.

The result of this is that Nakheel have actually, in many instances, assisted the LLs to get another years rent, therefore the LLs are making money. So why would they bother paying their fees now, when they can wait until 2012?


IzzyDubai
Posts 550



28/12/2011 06:16:47
There is an article on Arabianbusiness.com which is quoting RERA as saying that Nakheel can't charge residence for access to the beach but is saying that they can deny LL access if they have not paid.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/nakheel-has-no-right-charge-for-facilities-rera-437140.html


IzzyDubai
Posts 550



28/12/2011 05:36:21
flydiver11 wrote:

They could have allowed tennants that had paid their rent in advance, prior to Nakheels decision, access to the beach until the end of their contract. .


Seriously, so you think that it's acceptable for Nakheel to assist someone who owes them money to make money?? This is what you are saying.......


flydiver11
Posts 592



28/12/2011 02:01:54
It takes account of their proximity and convenience, but from a legal standpoint, it doesn't guarantee access unless it's specifically written into the rental contract. You may well *assume* that you have access, but legally, unless it says otherwise in your tenancy contract, you don't have a right to it if the appropriate service charges have not been paid.

@ Edna.. actually my conract states that these facilities were included and I was issued Nakheel passes accordingly.

You also stated that no one has offered any suggestions that were feesable. Nakheel as a gesture of good faith to the tennants that have been loyal to their product could have gone about this in many different ways.

They could have advertised openly how hard the access passes were to get and what the fees and charges were going to be, well in advance. Therefore prospective tennants would know not to rent there without ensuring that their landlord had paid the fees. Thus punishing the LL by leaving them with a property that was unleaseable until the fees were paid. Not punishing a tennant that paid a year in advance and is now stuck with the property. Most of us would not think to ask if the LL fees had been paid in advance. I have rented in Dubai for over a decade and have never heard of this issue before this occasion.

They could have allowed tennants that had paid their rent in advance, prior to Nakheels decision, access to the beach until the end of their contract. This again would leave the LL with a property that they again could not rent, as by such time the word would have been well and truely spread to stay clear of the Shoreline properties. Or perhaps the LL would pay their debt in that time given that they had notice from their tennants, and also knowing that no one else would rent from them. Or give the tennants time to settle a case with RERA.

Failing this Nakheel could have issued a notice informing the tennants of their legal rights agains the landlord to reclaim their rent if they chose to leave through RERA.

Instead of being transparent in their plans, when I approached the representative from Nakheel that heads the department that deals with the new shoreline beach access (after he was pointed out by the buildings security) he lied throuh his teeth. My mother had just arrived to stay for 2 months to help with my LO when I returned to work. So I asked him about the fees involved in her accessing the beach for 20 minutes a day just to walk my son, as there is no other option other than a busy road with footpaths that dont even have pram ramps. He informed me that it would be no more than 20dhs (on top of the massive rent we already pay to use these facilities). I said really, as the security told me it would be much more. He said definately not I promise you it will be nothing. Then when I asked him for his name, he started to back track and said maybe a little more, and the two members from Nakheel standing with him started to laugh. I asked again for his name & after he told me his name he said maybe it would be more than 40 dhs. Less than 2 weeks later turned out to be 200dhs.


edna.welthorpe
Posts 608



27/12/2011 11:30:08
Desertedbeach wrote:

6. Edna I believe people have offered suggestions, they are just not ones you agree with

No, nobody has offered anything practical or feasible.

Desertedbeach wrote:
Here's one, why don't Nakheel find a development and developer where people DO pay their service charges and copy that. You know, learn from another more successful, business with a better reputation

You really think that's a practical suggestion that Nakheel will be willing to implement?


Desertedbeach
Posts 57



26/12/2011 19:40:40
Pomegranate wrote:
If the sunbeds are all broken, the pool unheated and unusuable, the beach is dirty and littered, why does anyone want to actually have access to this in the first place?

It sounds like even if the service fees are paid, Nakheel doesn't give a **** about how the money is used!

Whaaaaa?
edited by Pomegranate on 26/12/2011
edited by Pomegranate on 26/12/2011


It seemed to be better when I moved in last January. I used to stay at a friend's apartment in Al Basri before that
(building 1) and it seemed relatively peaceful and clean. We moved because I had friends in three of the buildings and my kids could just trip down the stairs to the beach to play with kids they already knew and have that whole strip as a playground - I liked the idea of them having some freedom. I was working in Abu Dhabi and I liked coming home on a Thursday and not having to leave the area again until the Sunday. After that hideous drive it was great to be able to shop, eat, have a swim, have a glass of vino etc without having to get into a car. I loved just sitting at the pool bar having a glass of chilled beer or wine and watching the setting sun glinting off the two burj's, knowing i had a two minute walk home. Plus, I just really love being by the sea. Can't get enough of it.

Now of course i'm really regretting not taking an old arenco villa in Jumeirah 1 which was a bargain...


Al Quwatain
Posts 680



26/12/2011 17:34:35
I know my posts appear to be unhelpful, but with everything I know about Nakheel, they will never care about anyone else, or their reputation.
My advice still stands, and that is you should not think this is an isolated incident.


Pomegranate
Posts 1158



26/12/2011 15:37:48
If the sunbeds are all broken, the pool unheated and unusuable, the beach is dirty and littered, why does anyone want to actually have access to this in the first place?

It sounds like even if the service fees are paid, Nakheel doesn't give a **** about how the money is used!

Whaaaaa?
edited by Pomegranate on 26/12/2011
edited by Pomegranate on 26/12/2011


suze63
Posts 1880



26/12/2011 14:16:41
For those whose LL are UK residents, might there be an option to bring a claim against the LL in the UK courts? I brought a claim a couple of years agon the UK courst, against someone relating to money she owed me in Spain although she lived in the UK. She eventually settled but only when it progressed to the point at which I was going to be awarded a charge against her property in the Uk (a pub).


Ali.K
Posts 1006



26/12/2011 12:16:43
@Desrtedbeach - brilliant, very well put, agree with all.
@Al Quatain, yes as Kathy t says - totally unhelpful!

And as for moving out asap - I don't think so!! I have spent time, money and effort getting my apartment just how we like it. We like it here, we have nice neighbours, it is handy for where we work. I haven't been here long so certainly not about to start packing yet again, very inconvenient, stressful and expensive!! I will be letting my landlord know what conpensation I will be claiming, then letting HIM know how much this apartment is now worth - given that I don't see this being resolved anytime soon - then I will be paying by monthly cheque. If he has a problem with that then HE will have to go to RERA. As he lives in the UK, I doubt he will have much choice but to accept what I am prepared to pay, as, if I were to move out he would have an empty apartment probably for quite some time.


Kathyt
Posts 732



26/12/2011 11:32:39
Did see property via DH,but didn't go round flushing toilets. Why bother adding such an unhelpful comment?


Al Quwatain
Posts 680



26/12/2011 10:36:05
I suggest that you all vacate ASAP, as this will always be an issue, as we all know, Nakheel have failed in so many aspects.
As for those who rented without seeing the property first, I can only say you must suck it up then leave.


Kathyt
Posts 732



26/12/2011 10:07:46
DB - well done! Agree with every point you make. Thanks for your succinct, accurate and well explained summary of the situation.


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