Question re Emirates cabin crew

I wholeheartedly agree with the former Prime Minister of Australia, Julia Gillard, when stating 'you live in our country, you live by our rules, if you do not like it, get out' LOL, I did not know she said that. Sounds more like the Liberal tongue of old Johnny. This was said to people here, too. But after a few months it dies down and everyone goes back on their normal paths. http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/government/a/Australian-Prime-Minister-Muslim-Immigrants.htm

Skykitty, FYI, because of the way you have represented Emirates on this forum, I began booking with Emirates again, following two experiences with vey unprofessional staff onboard. You are a great rep. Thanks for your kind comments. I hope your subsequent trips were much more pleasant :)

I nearly cried when on board an Etihad flight and that girl and another came out of the cockpit as cadets. People were really uplifted to see them. There was a general feeling on the aircraft of WOW!! I was surprised at my reaction given my the girls/women in my husbands family are very high achievers in professions usually dominated by men - but there was just something about the two of them :) edited by DesertRose1958 on 07/03/2014 I'm the same- I really love seeing women successful in male-dominated industries (and vice versa!!)

Thanks Skykitty all very interesting. Especially as a question very similar to this was recently raised in the UK over a religiously observant Employee requesting not to serve pork/wine in a supermarket. I didn't see why this should be an issue especially being that many supermarkets have persons as young as 16 working checkout tills who are unable to serve alcohol due to their age in any case. However much public outcry ensued, the Daily Mail had a field day and eventually the supermarket in question revised their policy to say people with religious restrictions will be put on bakery or clothes checkouts wherever possible to avoid such issues. No problem. Tbh I've never even had a crew member not want to serve alcohol, I guess for most who are doing this job they are more 'worldy' (for lack of a better term) in their views anyway so it's not an issue... even many passengers don't seem to have a problem with it- we do pick up alcoholic drinks to serve someone and then serve others and no one has ever told me they have a problem with it. In fact the only issue of this type I've ever encountered was a Hasidic Jewish man who explained he preferred not to be served if any of the female crew were on their time of the month. (as is common in a female dominated industry two of them actually were) so we were honest with him and just had one of the males serve him (this was in a premium cabin so not really any problem). As I said if it was a super sensitive issue then the crew would try to accommodate the customer as best they could...

Luckily none of this happens in the UAE.

Likewise I think religious jewellery (the case a few years ago of staff wearing a cross at work) should be worn under clothes at work, companies with uniforms should basically have a uniform coloured or plain black hijab, kippah, dastar (any additional as required). Same can go for schools as well. RuthM: Is that not a contradiction? On one hand you say that religious symbols should not be visible at work, then on the other hand you say that workplaces should provide religious headwear. I wear a silver cross pendant and have never had any objections to it. In some religions certain headwear is a requirement, it is also not really possible to hide religious headwear. However by workplaces providing religious headwear or guidance on it they can stop certain people from trying to make a point by wearing something bright or fashion type. Likewise religious jewellery should be inconspicuous as some people will make a point of wearing something enormous as a fashion statement then turn it into a religion issue. As far as I am aware no religious text has a requirement for religious jewellery in any case (unlike the requirement for women to cover their hair in both Islam and Judaism (married women) and Sikh men to wear the turban). However if there are religious texts that state jewellery as a requirement I am quite sure they do not say it needs to be made of gold and six inches long (for example). I did not say religious jewellery should be banned only that it should be hidden (where possible), perhaps inconspicuous would be a better way to put it. In my opinion in diverse Britain all religious clothing and jewellery in the workplace and schools should be inconspicuous, where possible it should not be visible and it certainly should not be of 'fashion' type. <em>edited by RuthM on 08/03/2014</em>

I wholeheartedly agree with the former Prime Minister of Australia, Julia Gillard, when stating 'you live in our country, you live by our rules, if you do not like it, get out'

Likewise I think religious jewellery (the case a few years ago of staff wearing a cross at work) should be worn under clothes at work, companies with uniforms should basically have a uniform coloured or plain black hijab, kippah, dastar (any additional as required). Same can go for schools as well. RuthM: Is that not a contradiction? On one hand you say that religious symbols should not be visible at work, then on the other hand you say that workplaces should provide religious headwear. I wear a silver cross pendant and have never had any objections to it.

Actually I was trying to say I don't have an issue with certain checkouts being unable to serve alcohol or pork. As stated some checkouts cannot serve alcohol when the server is under 18 in any case. Supermarkets can clearly mark these checkout as such or alternatively put religiously observant people on other checkouts where no food is served. When I was in Scotland the Catholic doctor I saw was unable to prescribe the contraceptive pill, even though it was for menstrual pain, instead I was referred to another GP, I do not see how this is any different. However there is no need for abuse, in the case I referred to the person at the checkout very politely apologised that they were unable to serve alcohol I believe this is quite strict in Islam and any observant person is unable to serve/sell alcohol or other haram products. Of course where this leaves selling of non halal meat (such as non ritually slaughter beef) I am not sure. I for one would never consider taking a bottle of wine to a Muslim friend's home and expect them to serve it to me. Likewise I think religious jewellery (the case a few years ago of staff wearing a cross at work) should be worn under clothes at work, companies with uniforms should basically have a uniform coloured or plain black hijab, kippah, dastar (any additional as required). Same can go for schools as well. As for cancelling Christmas activities etc. I do agree this is absolute nonsense, and makes no sense whatsoever especially as it is my understanding that Jesus is recognised as an important figure in Islam in any case. This is clearly a situation of certain individuals just trying to make a point for the sake of causing trouble and getting headlines. I spent my last Christmas with a mixture of Christians, a Muslim family of five (who are very observant), two Jews (who are the most likely to find Christmas offensive) and a Hindu. However in, for example, a predominantly Hindu area in the UK I would also expect to see lights for Diwali and no protest from other religious groups. The UK is a multicultural country especially in major cities and people should expect to see such things. In fact I think it good to embrace such diversity, cultural understanding only makes children better equipped for life. Any parent who objects to their child being exposed to cultural festivities has no place in UK society, be it a Jew complaining about Easter, a Muslim about Christmas or a Christian about Diwali.

In any discussion regarding political correctness in the UK and behavior of minorities, it should always be pointed out that it is a small group among minorities who demand and complain too much. Otherwise one gets the impression that every other person from those communities are out to change the UK and so on, when the majority are just leading normal lives and not out to cause trouble. That case of a veiled woman going on a rant over grape juice was certainly wrong, but she is no more a representative of British Muslims than the man at Clapham Junction who was ranting that I deserved to be killed and chopped into little pieces for what people like me were doing to his country, is of normal Brits.

Completely agree with you there! JoyceB Aye, we Scots don't suffer fools gladly LOL!! :D

Completely agree with you there! JoyceB

These kinds of things are only happening in certain parts of the UK, mainly English cities like Birmingham and London where there are large populations of ethnic minorities who try to throw their weight about. I'm at home in Scotland. We did have a few issues in our local school where Muslim parents objected to their children being "subjected" to Christmas based activities. They were told in no uncertain terms that they were not going to change the curriculum to suit a small handful of children. They were not expected to take part in the church service or school nativity play but were objecting to making decorations. (I have 2 friends who are teachers in this school) Romanian gypsies selling the Big Issue were removed from the High street in Stirling as they were being subjected to so much verbal abuse! One of these women was a large feisty loud female who was very rude if you ignored her. I'd certainly have something to say if some immigrant told me how to behave in my own country! <em>edited by Scottishbambi on 07/03/2014</em>

These kinds of things are only happening in certain parts of the UK, mainly English cities like Birmingham and London where there are large populations of ethnic minorities who try to throw their weight about. I'm at home in Scotland. We did have a few issues in our local school where Muslim parents objected to their children being "subjected" to Christmas based activities. They were told in no uncertain terms that they were not going to change the curriculum to suit a small handful of children. They were not expected to take part in the church service or school nativity play but were objecting to making decorations. (I have 2 friends who are teachers in this school) Romanian gypsies selling the Big Issue were removed from the High street in Stirling as they were being subjected to so much verbal abuse! One of these women was a large feisty loud female who was very rude if you ignored her. I'd certainly have something to say if some immigrant told me how to behave in my own country!

SJ you were too polite and civilised, if it were me things would have gotten really ugly!!! I am completely out of patience and tolerance for what is happening to the UK. Ughhhhh!

Thanks Skykitty all very interesting. Especially as a question very similar to this was recently raised in the UK over a religiously observant Employee requesting not to serve pork/wine in a supermarket. I didn't see why this should be an issue especially being that many supermarkets have persons as young as 16 working checkout tills who are unable to serve alcohol due to their age in any case. However much public outcry ensued, the Daily Mail had a field day and eventually the supermarket in question revised their policy to say people with religious restrictions will be put on bakery or clothes checkouts wherever possible to avoid such issues. Agree with you. in Edgware Road recently and a veiled lady shouted at me (in Arabic) for buying a bottle of grape juice stating 'how dare I buy such a haram item in her country'. I kindly reminded her that it's MY country and I will do as I wish. UK has become to politically correct nowadays. <em>edited by SJ1968 on 07/03/2014</em>

It's not true. There are not many, but they are there! Obviously not as many as the men, I've flown with three different Emirati girls. It's probably that they are either independent or from more 'modern' families since they have to wear the same uniform as everyone else. Cabin crew cannot wear the hijab style of scarf like the ground crew do, or trousers since they are not part of the main uniform any more. Applies equally to all crew regardless of religion or nationality. This may be one of the reasons that there are not many Emirati ladies flying. There are however, loads of Emirati women working elsewhere including as pilots and dispatchers. Picture of Etihad's first female pilot: [url=http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/first-emirati-female-co-pilot-joins-etihad-2011-06-13-1.402625'>here[/url'> edited by SkyKitty on 06/03/2014 I nearly cried when on board an Etihad flight and that girl and another came out of the cockpit as cadets. People were really uplifted to see them. There was a general feeling on the aircraft of WOW!! I was surprised at my reaction given my the girls/women in my husbands family are very high achievers in professions usually dominated by men - but there was just something about the two of them :) <em>edited by DesertRose1958 on 07/03/2014</em>

Thanks Skykitty all very interesting. Especially as a question very similar to this was recently raised in the UK over a religiously observant Employee requesting not to serve pork/wine in a supermarket. I didn't see why this should be an issue especially being that many supermarkets have persons as young as 16 working checkout tills who are unable to serve alcohol due to their age in any case. However much public outcry ensued, the Daily Mail had a field day and eventually the supermarket in question revised their policy to say people with religious restrictions will be put on bakery or clothes checkouts wherever possible to avoid such issues.

Nope, all crew must be willing to serve alcohol. It's a question that came up in the interviews for anyone who identified as a Muslim. The logic is, work must be shared equally amongst the crew as it's just not possible to work that way as flights are so busy. Again, it's something that each Muslim would have to decide for themselves if they feel okay with. For some, it's the consumption that counts, whereas for others just touching it is too much. If we can manage it then yes the non Muslim crew would take the bar cart and the Muslims the meal cart but tbh it's never come up as an actual request that I've heard of... Emirati crew do, however, get paid extra to work during Ramadan (and in general due to the different contracts between expats and locals, as in many industries) and generally crew are quite accommodating of those who are fasting- for example we put aside a tray for our fasting colleague and try not to eat in front of them- however most tell us they don't mind and many have told me they feel more accomplished at the end of Ramadan for resisting what is right in front of them. Of course, since they are travelling they are exempted so only have to fast if they choose and if safety was ever in question then appropriate measures would be taken. As far as I know there are a few Emirati female pilots in Emirates, the ones I met were cadets undergoing the initial flight training however that was some time ago so I am sure it would have changed.

Difficult for them as they must serve and work with alcohol and food 365 days of the year. I thought Muslims were not permitted to serve alcohol, surely Emirates will make allowance for this i.e. Muslim staff can serve food only whilst a non Muslim staff member can serve drinks? Fortunately pork is not served on Emirates airlines therefore not an issue.

Indeed. They have to make huge decisions themselves as to what they feel they can and can't do.

Difficult for them as they must serve and work with alcohol and food 365 days of the year.

EK has female pilots. Not sure if they have any Emirati females. Do you know if they do Skykitty?

It's not true. There are not many, but they are there! Obviously not as many as the men, I've flown with three different Emirati girls. It's probably that they are either independent or from more 'modern' families since they have to wear the same uniform as everyone else. Cabin crew cannot wear the hijab style of scarf like the ground crew do, or trousers since they are not part of the main uniform any more. Applies equally to all crew regardless of religion or nationality. This may be one of the reasons that there are not many Emirati ladies flying. There are however, loads of Emirati women working elsewhere including as pilots and dispatchers. Picture of Etihad's first female pilot: [url=http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/first-emirati-female-co-pilot-joins-etihad-2011-06-13-1.402625'>here[/url'> <em>edited by SkyKitty on 06/03/2014</em>