Landlord is not selling villa!

That's not our experience as landlords in Geneva, Lenochka, the way our contracts work is that three months' notice must be given by either party before the end of the annually renewable contract - if no notice is given by either party, then the rental contract is tacitly understood to have automatically been renewed for another year.

They probably also have procedures in place to deal effectively and efficiently with non-payment of rent and abuse of a property by a tenant. Simples, what happens if a tenant wants to break a lease mid-term? Are there penalties for that? Renting in France and Germany seem similar to Switzerland. My sil has been renting the same apartment in Germany for over 30 years! edited by A Rancher on 30/04/2013 Yes, the only reason a tenant can be kicked out almost immediately by the landlord is if they don't pay the rent. I don't know about if they cause major damage - it all should be covered by someone's insurance, anyway! To the best of my knowledge, if a tenant wants to break a lease mid-term, it can be amiably resolved, either by the tenant subletting or by the landlord asking the departing tenant to find a new one and a new contract being entered into - as long as the landlord doesn't lose out on rent he would have been paid (rent is always paid one month in advance, three months' deposit in bank security account, untouchable by landlord unless tenant does a runner or damages the flat so much that when they leave the deposit has to be used for repairs). Theoretically, 3 months' notice on either side is required, but unless you have people who are determined to be unreasonable, this can usually be sorted. Unlike here, landlords don't like leaving their property empty for months and years at a time!

Rents for apartments in Switzerland are generally not fixed, i.e. you simply rent it on an ongoing basis. Termination notice is usually 3 months, possible for every end of the months. i.e. send a termination letter at the end of January one will need to vacate the flat by the end of April.... Main moving months are 1. April (termination letter is sent by end of December) and 1. October (termination letter is sent at the end of June). Generally end of December is not really accepted as moving out due to the holidys). Rent is paid monthly....and non payments will be handled strictly with claim letters, court oders and evictions done by the police... Of course there are the occasional fixed lease contracts for example when people go abroad for some time...the contract is limited for say 2 years...but the rent is still paid monthly....so the ridiculous fact that you have to take a loan to rent your apartment for 1 year when you may get made redundant half way through does not exist......!! <em>edited by Lenochka on 30/04/2013</em>

Just wanted to add that we are responsible landlords and have a full maintence contract on the property and pay for any repairs required. Having said that, we've had someone phone at night asking us arrange to have a lightbulb changed. There's godd and bad on both sides and most people try to be fair but in my experience of renting out property here and in other countries there are more p**s takers here who really try it on. <em>edited by A Rancher on 30/04/2013</em>

A Rancher, you should try being a tenant in Geneva :) Fixed rent for years, as it's pegged to inflation and if inflation rates decrease, the rent [b'>must decrease[/b'> proportionally; all the rights, none of the responsibilities :) [b'>And[/b'> you don't pay the agent's commission, the landlord does :) I think in general, there are better systems in place in Switzerland to cover all aspects of life; it seems like a highly civilised society. I seem to remember too that there is a very low level of home ownership in Switzerland and properties tend to be owned by institutions so renting is the norm for everyone and appropriate rules have been developed accordingly. They probably also have procedures in place to deal effectively and efficiently with non-payment of rent and abuse of a property by a tenant. Simples, what happens if a tenant wants to break a lease mid-term? Are there penalties for that? Renting in France and Germany seem similar to Switzerland. My sil has been renting the same apartment in Germany for over 30 years! <em>edited by A Rancher on 30/04/2013</em>

Our landlord gave us 12 months to vacate as he intended to sell our apartment. however the 12 months is nearly up and he has not sold the property, nor have any prospective purchaser viewed it. It is fairly clear that notice was given simply so he can increase the rent to new tenants. Do we have any rights in this situation? Did he advertize the property, do you know? Anyway, I would agree with others. He gave 12 months notice, that is a year of his life.......regardless of the law. You have had a year to relocate.

A Rancher, you should try being a tenant in Geneva :) Fixed rent for years, as it's pegged to inflation and if inflation rates decrease, the rent [b'>must decrease[/b'> proportionally; all the rights, none of the responsibilities :) [b'>And[/b'> you don't pay the agent's commission, the landlord does :)

Why shouldn't landlords be able to do what they want with their property???? If someone wants to live in a property for a long time withoth any disruptions they should buy one. But that involves tying up a lot of money so people prefer to rent. You can't have all the benefits of use of a property for as long as you want it while only committing to it for a year at a time. If you are renting and want to live in a property for 5 years, sign a 5 year lease. People don't want to do that becasue the rents might go down, they might move etc (all valid points) but they can't expect to have rights over a property for years, that is not their own and which they are renting on a yearly basis. At the end of the year's lease, the landlord can't say to the tenant, "yes we signed a non-renewable yearly lease and it's come to an end but I really want you to stay so I'll be sure I can pay my mortgage". However, tenants in the same position, having signed a one year lease (usually with renewable at landlord's discretion all over it) can say at the end of the year-"I want to stay and even at the end of the next year if you want to sell you still have to give me another year's notice to leave". 3 years rights over a property for which both parties signed a one year contract!! Yes, I am a landlord and own property here and overseas. Overseas, I sign leases for a pre-determined period of time and after that the tenant can either apply to stay (which we always agree to) or leave if we want to sell or move on to somewhere else fi they wish to do that. There are some greedy landlords, but most took a massive loss after 2008 in property values and rents - we took the risk and faced the consequences but now that rents are picking up again, we should be able to benefit from that to compensate in some way for the big drops we have experienced. Regarding the issue of paying rent in advance, it's because there is no effective small claims tribunal to evict a tenant who is mistreating a property or not paying rent. If you want to get a tenant out here, you have to take it to court which is a long and costly procedure and all the while your property is tied up and losing you income. When a proper system is put in place, landlords would be more likely to accept payment on a monthly basis. We chose to invest in property as a investment (very bad decision as it turned out) for my childrens' future and did not tie up all that money to provide social housing. I'm looking for the best return on my investment and I'm sorry if anyone is upset about that. If expats had not invested, there would be a huge shortage of housing stock and Dubai would simply not have been able to grow and rents for the relatively small number of properties which were available around 2004/5 would be astronomical.

The laws protect tenants from huge increases and evictions; but that is pretty much it In every other sphere, the ball is not in their court and the whole system is against them: Tenants pay the agents, yet more often than not the agent acts on behalf of the owner Tenants are expected to cough up 4 or 6 months rent, by taking out a loan if necessary Tenants are not protected against owners who dont pay service charges, depriving access to parking levels and so on. Tenants are sometimes at the mercy of the owners when it comes to visa renewals, as if the owner does not offer title deeds, it is difficult to get the Ejari contract done In almost all properties that we saw, the owner had refused to clean it up before renting it out and refused to repair broken windows, tiles, toilet bowls. So much so that the only properties that seemed worth taking were brand new ones. Many owners' mindset seems to be: "I not pay for cleaning, maintenance, i want 200k in 1 cheque and if you dont pay 300k next year, i want you out"

Once a tenant is in a property, should they be allowed to remain there until they decide to leave, at the same/ similar rent even if the market has moved 30%? The rental calculator reflects changes in the market, especially movements of 30%, so that's a moot point really.

I totally get the frustration with higher rents and the inefficient rental/ sales market here. this is part and parcel of where we all choose to live. IMO the authorities have really tried to protect tenants from abuse/ unfair actions on the part of the LL, and generally side with tenants in case of dispute. I'd like to know what people think can be done in ADDITION to requiring 12 months notice for eviction. Once a tenant is in a property, should they be allowed to remain there until they decide to leave, at the same/ similar rent even if the market has moved 30%?

LL's do not pay a thing to rent out their properties. It's all on the tenant Our landlord paid the same commission cheque to the agent as we did. Same with our previous landlord. DH and LL were there at the same time in agent's office when papers were signed and all cheques handed over. Then that is the exeption to the rule. I have always maintained that if LL's were made to pay the agency fee to rent out their properties, they would be more reluctant to try and boot the tenants out after 1 year as it would cost them yep totally agree wish it would change.

LL's do not pay a thing to rent out their properties. It's all on the tenant Our landlord paid the same commission cheque to the agent as we did. Same with our previous landlord. DH and LL were there at the same time in agent's office when papers were signed and all cheques handed over. never heard of that before...... in all my 15 years here!

LL's do not pay a thing to rent out their properties. It's all on the tenant Our landlord paid the same commission cheque to the agent as we did. Same with our previous landlord. DH and LL were there at the same time in agent's office when papers were signed and all cheques handed over. Then that is the exeption to the rule. I have always maintained that if LL's were made to pay the agency fee to rent out their properties, they would be more reluctant to try and boot the tenants out after 1 year as it would cost them

LL's do not pay a thing to rent out their properties. It's all on the tenant Our landlord paid the same commission cheque to the agent as we did. Same with our previous landlord. DH and LL were there at the same time in agent's office when papers were signed and all cheques handed over.

LL's do not pay a thing to rent out their properties. It's all on the tenant yeh which is weird..... not like the row. if a property is sold it doesnt matter the new owner must then honour that contract until the end, at the end of that contract 12 months notice is given, but if they have already given you that 12 months not sure that you can do much..... you need to get advice from rent committee etc.

LL's do not pay a thing to rent out their properties. It's all on the tenant

If someone else is willing to pay a higher rent than you, then that is the market rate. Basics of economics. The laws of supply and demand and market rates assume all market players have access to equal information. With such a transient population and a constant inflow of newcomers, that just isn't the case here in Dubai. With a much more stable population, that might be the case, but it just doesn't ring true here. <em>edited by Meagle on 30/04/2013</em>

All due to greedy landlords and agents. If someone else is willing to pay a higher rent than you, then that is the market rate. would you choose to accept a lower return on your investment out of the goodness of your heart? and[b'> LL do pay agent's fees here, same as tenants[/b'>, which is more incentive for them to renegotiate with existing tenant if the tenant is willing. they save on the costs of having the property empty while finding new tenant and then having to pay big % in agency fees again, vs just AED1000 to renew an existing contract at higher rent with existing tenant. of course some LL are daft and would rather have a property empty for a year or more because they have unrealistic expectations of 'market' price. totally irrational and inexplicable, and yes, greedy. Really? Commission fees to the agent every time their property is rented out? Are you sure? They don't ,i am sure there was an article recently saying that the LL should pay these but they do not. The tenant pays them to the agent

All due to greedy landlords and agents. If someone else is willing to pay a higher rent than you, then that is the market rate. would you choose to accept a lower return on your investment out of the goodness of your heart? and[b'> LL do pay agent's fees here, same as tenants[/b'>, which is more incentive for them to renegotiate with existing tenant if the tenant is willing. they save on the costs of having the property empty while finding new tenant and then having to pay big % in agency fees again, vs just AED1000 to renew an existing contract at higher rent with existing tenant. of course some LL are daft and would rather have a property empty for a year or more because they have unrealistic expectations of 'market' price. totally irrational and inexplicable, and yes, greedy. Really? Commission fees to the agent every time their property is rented out? Are you sure?

So is it the desperate tenants that drive the spiralling market rates? Nobody can be blamed for wanting what they can get, but somewhere along the line you have to get realistic about it.

All due to greedy landlords and agents. If someone else is willing to pay a higher rent than you, then that is the market rate. would you choose to accept a lower return on your investment out of the goodness of your heart? and LL do pay agent's fees here, same as tenants, which is more incentive for them to renegotiate with existing tenant if the tenant is willing. they save on the costs of having the property empty while finding new tenant and then having to pay big % in agency fees again, vs just AED1000 to renew an existing contract at higher rent with existing tenant. of course some LL are daft and would rather have a property empty for a year or more because they have unrealistic expectations of 'market' price. totally irrational and inexplicable, and yes, greedy.

I suppose it depends where you want to live in Dubai, i could get a cheaper rent but it means moving to an area that is not as well developed/clean/quiet/facilities etc as the area i currently live in The rents in my area have gone up by 20% however my LL is happy she has a good tennant

Our landlord gave us 12 months to vacate as he intended to sell our apartment. however the 12 months is nearly up and he has not sold the property, nor have any prospective purchaser viewed it. It is fairly clear that notice was given simply so he can increase the rent to new tenants. Do we have any rights in this situation? I don't mean to sound harsh, and I sympathise with you having to look for a new place to live, but does it really matter if he is selling/ has sold the apartment? It is his apartment and he has given you 12 months notice to vacate it. If he subsequently chooses to let it again for a higher rent, surely that is within his right, as he OWNS the apartment and has not turfed you out at a moment's notice? You could always offer to pay a higher (market) rent to stay for another 12 months? Tenant's rights in Dubai seem to be much stronger than in other parts of the 'developed' world; in the UK, you only need to give 2 months notice (and no reason!) to evict tenants. What you choose to do with your property after the tenants have moved out is none of their business. For what it's worth, I am not a landlord in Dubai, I rent and have moved when my rental contract has expired without being renewed. I usually look around at the going rate for similar rentals three months before the end of the contract, and work out if it's more cost effective for me to negotiate to pay a higher rent with my current landlord or to move. usually, I have managed to come to an agreement with the landlord on the next year's rent that is acceptable both to LL and to us. In other parts of the "developed " world you are not expected to cough up a years rent in advance or in 2/3/4 cheques - you pay monthly. In addition, many rental agreements allow the tenant a notice period without penalty.

One of the main problems is that if you are given notice in the UK for example, the majority of the time you can just go rent another property at the same spec for the same price... But here you are looking at having to pay significantly more than your current rent, and not just 10k. All due to greedy landlords and agents. no you don't. You just look around. On which planet?

One of the main problems is that if you are given notice in the UK for example, the majority of the time you can just go rent another property at the same spec for the same price... But here you are looking at having to pay significantly more than your current rent, and not just 10k. All due to greedy landlords and agents. no you don't. You just look around. MrsBW, I suspect you haven't been looking to rent a place recently. Rents have gone up 20-30% in many areas just in the last 6-9 months. Actually i moved in February and reduced my rent by 30k :)

One of the main problems is that if you are given notice in the UK for example, the majority of the time you can just go rent another property at the same spec for the same price... But here you are looking at having to pay significantly more than your current rent, and not just 10k. All due to greedy landlords and agents. no you don't. You just look around. MrsBW, I suspect you haven't been looking to rent a place recently. Rents have gone up 20-30% in many areas just in the last 6-9 months.

agreed that LL shouldnt be able to evict tenants at short notice etc. and i know the market here is not very efficient or transparent. but at the end of the day, 12 months notice is a long time to make alternative arrangements. if you were the LL, what more can you be expected to do if you want your property back for whatever reason? there are also many more options/ supply of housing available to rent now than there was in 2008, when there was a real shortage which is why people were willing/ forced to pay such crazy rents. I do hate moving here though, especially dealing with cowboy estate agents aka extortionists and I hope OP finds something suitable or can reach a new arrangement with her current LL. I agree thnankfully my new LL is fab and the contract just roles over each year with no hassle or increase

One of the main problems is that if you are given notice in the UK for example, the majority of the time you can just go rent another property at the same spec for the same price... But here you are looking at having to pay significantly more than your current rent, and not just 10k. All due to greedy landlords and agents. And each time you have to pay the agency fee again which is really unfair. In more developed markets, the Landlord pays the fee. [b'>dont rent through an agent then.[/b'> Much easier said than done. Just [b'>how[/b'> long have you lived here, MrsBW?

agreed that LL shouldnt be able to evict tenants at short notice etc. and i know the market here is not very efficient or transparent. but at the end of the day, 12 months notice is a long time to make alternative arrangements. if you were the LL, what more can you be expected to do if you want your property back for whatever reason? there are also many more options/ supply of housing available to rent now than there was in 2008, when there was a real shortage which is why people were willing/ forced to pay such crazy rents. I do hate moving here though, especially dealing with cowboy estate agents aka extortionists and I hope OP finds something suitable or can reach a new arrangement with her current LL.