Hello.Again.Kitty | ExpatWoman.com
 

Hello.Again.Kitty

1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 03 April 2011 - 00:19
I know iCandy do this (they're in the UK, so not sure if they'll ship) and I've seen one very similar, but it wasn't an iCandy (sorry to not be more helpful) BUT the iCandy Pear is a beast of a thing - really heavy... however, the model I bought is now 2 years old, and I reckon they've come out with an alternative, lighter variation now.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 03 April 2011 - 00:16
you could ask you in-laws to buy a second hand cot... there are always quite a few going. Have you asked if they've got one already? My in-laws kept the cot my husband and his siblings used for grandchildren (as and when they appeared) and the cot we use in the UK was actually my fathers, so has now seen 3 generations of my family! It's quite traditional to keep the cot to pass down, so you never know.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 02 April 2011 - 21:50
Although not sure eating your MIL's Roast Beef and Yorkshires every Sunday quite constitutes citizenship :) ....no...not unless you do fish and chips every Friday as well.... Isn't Chicken Korma Britain's most popular dish now anyway? (Yes, seriously!)
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 02 April 2011 - 21:48
I had a "lump" or rather hardness running from the edge of my breasts to midway pretty much throughout feeding DS - never painful or hot, but just very obviously a very full milk duct. I used to massage/ compress it whilst feeding DS to clear it. Never had the issue with my first!
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 02 April 2011 - 21:43
This was at around 5-6 months old too. I started weaning DD at 4 months and DS at 5.5 edited by Hello.Again.Kitty on 01/04/2011 H.A.K - do you mind if I pick your brain quickly? After much debate on Wednesday with others re: weaning at 4months or 6months, I decided to give it a go! DD is 17 weeks on Sunday and I started with one teaspoon of baby rice cereal mixed with breast milk at 4:30pm. This seems to be such a controversial subject ie. digestive systems aren't ready, food allergies... What made you decide to wean at 4 months? And which plan did you follow after the rice cereal? It's pretty much a fact that the gut isn't ready before 18 weeks, which corresponds to the end of the 4th month. The guidelines stating that babies should be weaned around 6 months (and the research linking early weaning to later health problems) is to do with some mums still trying to start their babies on solids (not-so-harmless cereal in their last bottle at night, for example) from a very early age, say 2 weeks old (this was common 40-odd years ago) and/or uniquely feeding them purees from jars, which often have all kinds of additives, salt and sugar in them. My health visitor took a very pragmatic approach, saying that my DD was showing all the signs of needing extra food (feeding ever 30 minutes from 19h30 until 22h and then waking every 2h throughout the night for a good milk feed was a subtle hint, as well as her following every fork movement with a gaping wide mouth and hmm sounds!). She also said that there was very little harm in starting off gently (baby rice and milk for a week or so, then moving on the home-made purées) and that the kind of things I was giving (fresh, home-made, organic) was ticking all the right boxes. She recommended that the earlier you start, the gentler you take it, introducing new food slowly - if you started at 6 months, you could pretty much launch into giving anything (not raw eggs and the usual...)... either way, both my two had got to eating everything going by 6 months. I think it's really important though to take your baby's lead. Start when they are ready, not because your mum/ friend/ neighbour said that it's make them sleep better (false in my experience), or that they would wither away if they didn't have more (not really true) or that your milk isn't good enough (not true in the vast majority of cases) and also don't start because every other baby the same age seems to be being weaned. It's not a race, there are no medals and they all get there in the end, in their own special way. Oh, and as for the recipes and whatnot, I just winged it and made up my own. Again, my lovely HV said that by a year old, the child should really be eating what the family eats - with the family... so by all means do wonderful recipes for the baby, but if you're not eating venison and sweet potato gratin yourselves on a regular basis, then there's little point in doing it. More often than not, I would save a portion of what we'd had the night before, heat it to piping hot and mash it up a bit for the kids! <em>edited by Hello.Again.Kitty on 02/04/2011</em>
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 02 April 2011 - 21:27
aww, sorry to hear you're poorly - and yes, it'll be more to do with you keeping your fluids up than anything not going into your milk. Part of the pregnancy weight is reserves for just such an eventuality!
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 02 April 2011 - 21:14
Oh and the Land Rover who was up the backside of the car in front in the fastest lane of SZR, who after a failed attempt to shoehorn him/herself into the central reservation hard shoulder to overtake, decided to try to overtake on the right, but got caught behind another car, so had to pull out behind the original not-fast-enough vehicle again... ... with a baby on board sticker FAIL <em>edited by Hello.Again.Kitty on 02/04/2011</em>
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 01 April 2011 - 22:42
the first time he tasted a jar he looked at me as if I was crazy coz there was nothing to bite, it looked like a smoothie, so runny and he refused. My two were the same - after a few weeks of home-made purées, they refused to even open their mouths for it, almost saying "hey, come on, I've done this now - bored of it, let's move on to some PROPER food! If I wanted runny, I'd stick with milk!" This was at around 5-6 months old too. I started weaning DD at 4 months and DS at 5.5 <em>edited by Hello.Again.Kitty on 01/04/2011</em>
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 01 April 2011 - 22:13
I find it very telling that while you were gone for a month, he couldn't bring himself to say that he missed you in any way. It's may "just" be pride, or it could be that he just sees you as a baby-making machine (horrid to say so, but yes)... either way, if he can't bring himself to tell the woman he married, that he loved and that he had a child with that he loves her, then, I'm sorry, but that relationship is pretty much dead. I've always believed that the key ingredient to a healthy relationship is trust. If one or the other can't trust his or her partner, then it's not a proper relationship.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 01 April 2011 - 21:18
What do you think would happen if you put your foot down? If you didn't have dinner ready for him, for example, or if you went out? I'm not a passive person and will kick back at attempts to control unreasonably. Confrontation doesn't mean to say you have to be aggressive - quite the contrary, in fact. Only you know what goes on in your house and how much you may have spoken about this (I say "spoken" and not "discussed" because the message obviously didn't get through!) It takes guts, determination and the willingness to take a bit of a risk to make such changes, but if you've had enough, then you need to make him realise that it's a 2 way relationship and that the gratefulness should be going both ways. It would also be worthwhile for you to listen to what he has to say - there may indeed be something bugging him that you may need to address - together. Be open-minded and interested in what he has to say - even if he expresses himself awkwardly (or aggressively/ defensively) there may be more to this whole situation that meets the eye. Failing all that, suggest going to some kind of mediator - marriage counsellor or some such. All these feelings need to be aired and a solution found.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 01 April 2011 - 21:05
I did a bit of a freestyle weaning method - invariably baby-led in that I followed their pace, but starting off with purees and moving rather quickly onto lumps, small pasta and then normal meals within a month or 2 of starting. They always had a variety of textures and flavours (sometimes quite bold - like olives, goat's cheese or smoked salmon) and could tackle it as they wished. Snacks always were finger foods - things like plain rice cakes, grapes, melon, banana...)
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 01 April 2011 - 20:41
yup, keep her in the rear-facing for as long as possible, even if she needs to bend her legs.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 01 April 2011 - 20:37
If you don't fancy walking, come out of the Marina Metro stop (Sea Side) and catch the F37 bus (leaves 00-15-30-45) and it'll deposit you right outside Marina Mall - takes about 4 minutes in the bus.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 31 March 2011 - 16:36
what on earth is a sheet cake? It's a large, quite flat, rectangular cake. Thank you, I just know vanilla, chocolate or cup. Yup, they're not really a big thing in the UK, but here they're generally the ones that you can put a big A4 themed wafer print thing on top, ice round the sides to hide the edges and hop! You have a big slab of cake to feed the ravenous hordes.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 31 March 2011 - 16:28
I will only eat at restaurants that have a BOGOF voucher and then choose the most expensive thing on the menu...
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 31 March 2011 - 16:14
It's not actually the Duphaston that brings on a period, but a sudden drop in progesterone levels. So if you are artificially increasing your overall levels of progesterone, then suddenly decreasing them (ie stopping taking the pills) will bring on a period (unless you're pregnant, in which case other things, namely your placenta have taken over), mimicking what your body already does naturally. The same goes for any form of contraceptive pill - by taking the supplementary hormones, you're essentially over-whelming your own and "forcing" your body into a set pattern. It sounds scary, but it's not really - heck, I've been taking the pill for yonks! This is an interesting article about the role of the different hormones doing their thang... [url=http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/S/SexHormones.html'>link[/url'> <em>edited by Hello.Again.Kitty on 31/03/2011</em>
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 31 March 2011 - 13:27
Hi there! I can't help on the TTC side of things, but throughout this whole process, do what you feel comfortable with. If you're not happy with something, get another opinion and take a different route. I'm a bit surprised that your Dr didn't take into account your history of depression. I am the same and 2 out of the 3 times I took progesterone pills (1 as a contraception, once Duphaston and another contraceptive) I had to stop because of the drastic and noticeable plummet in my mood. TTC - pregnancy, childbirth (and motherhood) - is so much to do with your frame of mind. I think sometimes Drs (here especially) forget that and just see the mechanics, rather than the person. Good luck, whatever route you take - but remember, it's your body and your choice. You're always in control and nature has a funny way of working sometimes! I know a good few women who became pregnant against all odds, completely naturally (one who was given a 20-40% chance to conceive naturally due to severe endometriosis and then got pregnant while she was on the pill!)
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 31 March 2011 - 13:15
what on earth is a sheet cake? It's a large, quite flat, rectangular cake.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 31 March 2011 - 12:26
all my cakes are sheet...... lol - awwww [sad face'> ;)
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 31 March 2011 - 11:57
Thanks for that- she does brill with finger foods and chunks of fruit so might try your idea of pasta shells and bigger lumps of veg that she can pick up. Gave her spoon and fork to hold but ends up chewing them instead of food!!! Looking forward to the day she has all her teeth and the drooling will stop!! hehe - but it's all part of the process really. My son spent months and months mashing his food up with the fork, pushing it around, or only managing to pick one grain of rice up with it, but now he has no problem at all... although sometimes he still abandons it in favour of handfuls stuffed in! I'd just go for it. She's old enough, capable enough and interested enough to eat what you'd eat - how you'd eat it.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 31 March 2011 - 11:23
13 months between them?! OK, I feel better now! I'm still feeling absolutely nothing. My sister keeps telling me to stop worrying and every pregnancy's different, and I know she's right, but I can't help but think I should be feeling something by now :(. Oh yes - #2 pregnancy isn't going to be at all as special as #1. You may remember all though nice people telling you to sit down and take it easy, bringing you cups of tea and basically allowing you to kick back a bit and enjoy it? Nah, none of that this time. You won't have the time to feel all gooey and warm. You just get on with it. I still smile at the "no heavy lifting" thing... first pregnancy saw people offering to pick things up for me and me being really careful... second time around, I was carrying 12kg of toddler around on a daily basis!
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 31 March 2011 - 11:19
Personally, I'm all for skipping the spoon stage and going straight to knives and forks. It's a bit hard-core, but if you're not happy about giving her purees still, just don't... especially if she's happy with finger foods! At 11 months, she probably wants to copy you. Both my two were clamouring for "proper" cutlery and proper food from quite early. Go for lumpy meals with no mashing at all - pasta shells, for example, so that she can either pick them up with her hands or try and spear them with a fork. Also go for chunky steamed veg, chunks of fruit and strips of meat. It's a classic case of letting her suck it and see! ;)
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 31 March 2011 - 11:14
I normally would do it myself, but I still have sooo much to do before the party, buying will be easier! I did check C4 last night. They didn't have anything, I'll check Lulu. Thank you!! Well, if Lulus hasn't got one, send a quick mail to caketastic.dubai @ gmail.com
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 31 March 2011 - 11:12
Would you leave your 5 month old with the maintenance guy, the gardener or any other random person that happens to make relatively regular appearances in your life? If so... My. Goodness. Me. If not, then maybe consider hiring someone legally who - shock horror - may actually be qualified to look after children. Maybe First Aid trained even, although that would really be pushing the boat out. Anyhow, back to the title. I do trust my cleaner (agency) to mind my children for very short periods of time. It turns out she was a trained social worker in the Philippines!
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 31 March 2011 - 11:06
most supermarkets (Geant, Lulu, P&S) do them, but if it's really simple, why not get a simple cake recipe or cake mix (shudder - lol) and do it yourself - you only need to bake it in a normal rectangular pyrex dish (like a lasagne dish). Then just ice it. <em>edited by Hello.Again.Kitty on 31/03/2011</em>
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 30 March 2011 - 16:17
well, is it just more solid (so completely normal with the change in diet) or is he actually not going at all (constipated)? If it's still normally formed (ie not pellets), then it's fine... if it's pellets, try upping the water in his diet... if he's constipated, try upping his liquid intake and the fiber.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 30 March 2011 - 15:01
Indeed - it's only a problem if it's a problem [b'>for you[/b'>... Also, being firm doesn't mean to say that you love your child any less than what you already do. It's up to you to set the rules of your house and stick to them - and this often creates a happier environment for all concerned. As for your daughter being headstrong, I've been there, done that and got the tattoo. My DD is... her wonderful, unique self, but believe me, she is at her best when her energy is channelled and she definitely knows the boundaries we've set. Not saying she always sticks to them, but she knows them! lol
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 29 March 2011 - 23:09
PS - If you go to Santorini, do the donkey rides that go down the twisty path on the side of the cliff. Best laugh you will have! :D "Slowly Donkey! Donkey slowly!"? hehe - had me chuckling for years!
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 29 March 2011 - 18:32
We spent a couple of days in Athens, then a week in Paros (beautiful and unspoilt - hire a scooter (this was pre-kids) - and a day trip to Delos, which is astounding) then a week on Santorini (amazing) and a week in Crete 9in Xania) All in all, one of the most wonderful holidays I've had.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 29 March 2011 - 13:07
some people just aren't into sports and that's fine. If he's got low energy levels, look to his diet. Is he eating lots of carbs - like crisps, popcorn, bread, snacks... Diet has a lot to do with energy, so maybe make some tweaks. Low energy could also be a sign of something else (still diet related, like a vitamin or mineral deficiency or a food intolerance (wheat and dairy are the main ones).
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 29 March 2011 - 12:21
Basically, never, ever, for any reason whatsoever pay a recruitment agency any money... at all. They get commission from the company they successfully place a candidate with. Also, logically, once they have your cash, what's their motivation to do anything more for you?
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 29 March 2011 - 12:15
oh, I'm wondering the same thing! My head's telling me "no more" but the rest of me is going "awww, just one more waffer thin baby!"... but I suspect it's just because I love giving birth so much, rather than actually liking children. I'm only on 2 though! 4?! Wow.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 29 March 2011 - 12:13
play areas and going to little playgroups is one thing. The little gym activities and music classes are a good change. I can't find costs for the activities though on the website. Wonder how it compares to the Little Gym or My Gym. more expensive - the my gym in Ibn B is 110 for a session and Kidville is 135. Ask if you can have a trial session before signing up - there'd be no harm in it.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 29 March 2011 - 08:48
There's one opening at Uptown Mirdif (where Howards Storage and Stokes used to be) with prices like that and MCC just down the road, I wonder how popular they'll be? Well the one in JBR is really popular! Personally, I can't understand it, but I guess some people have money to burn and it's a handy one-stop shop... and then, for some, the fact that Angelina Jodie et all use the NY one is a draw. I talked about it to the manager and she was justifying it by the fact that all their stuff is shipped from the states - sorry luv, but invariably it's Made in China! BUT as I said, the facilities are really lovely - the soft play/gym is incredible - and the staffing levels really dictate the price. There are 2 active facilitators for each class (no staff just sits in the corner!) and they have an in-house band (??!!!! :\: !!!) for the music lessons. Different strokes for different folks...
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 29 March 2011 - 08:35
fairytale, I think a major contributing factor is that I have to socialise professionally with people for either breakfast and lunch or lunch and dinner everyday. I need to make healthier choices when I'm eating out because I favor creamy pastas, cheesy pizzas and chocolate desserts which I know are not helping me. Plus when the people I'm meeting are smoking or having shisha - I tend to order even more high calorie foods :( I like to eat out too and found - when I was on my "watch what I eat" drive - that the trick was to cut out the fillers, so the rice, bread, pasta, spuds, etc... and to concentrate on meats and fish and veg in all its forms. I used an online (free) calorie counting tool called MyFitnessPal just to keep track of what I was eating, starting off with the first week being a warts-and-all diary to see my habits and how I could tweak them. It was quite shocking - I had got to a stage where I was having about 7 coffees a day (milk & sugar = approx 200cals!), about 700 cals worth of random snacks (that's the same as a good evening meal!) and was eating double the recommended portion size of rice and pasta. Sooo... I managed to lose 10kg over a year (a couple of plateaus) without actually changing my diet - just changing my habits. For me, it's about balance and setting up a system that you can carry on for the rest of your life... and enjoy it! Life's too short not to enjoy the odd burger or chocolate cake (or eat-as-much-as-you-like buffet!), so just balance it with a lighter lunch, water instead of soda or a very light snack instead of dinner.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 28 March 2011 - 22:34
[i'>And for the record HAK is an absolute stunner from head to toe. Most ladies would be over the moon to have a figure like hers.[/i'> awww - you're a sweetie! [blushes'>
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 28 March 2011 - 22:32
I took up the GoNabit deal for them when it was on and in fairness, they do do a lot for the kids and have great facilities. However, I found that poor DS (20 months) didn't really like the series of quick-fire activities and structure, but instead loves to rampage around their gym. Oh, and they're expensive. Like 135AED for a 1 hour session expensive. More expensive than any other kids activity in the UAE... and pro-rate more expensive than my DD's nursery.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 28 March 2011 - 22:11
can you sell them?! ;)
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 28 March 2011 - 22:06
I have a friend who had a really nifty thermos thing that you'd put a sterile bottle of boiling water in and it'd keep it hot. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tommee-Tippee-Closer-Nature-Travel/dp/B002L3TEN8/ref=pd_cp_kh_1 That and a great bag to carry all the stuff in.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 28 March 2011 - 21:59
Which Acai brand do you recommend? Thanks By taking pills or supplements, you'd be treating the symptoms, but not the cause.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 28 March 2011 - 21:58
You're the same BMI as me (I'm taller and weigh more than you). In my mind, weight isn't the issue - it's how you feel - both health-wise and self-esteem wise. You've done wonders for your body by quitting smoking and so I'd advise just giving it some time to settle. You're by no means overweight, but 25lb+ would take some getting used to. However, you say your appetite has increased... whereas what your body actually needs hasn't. There are a good few mechanisms to help cope with a feeling of hunger (which often isn't - often it's thirst or just boredom). Think about some healthy snacks and cutting back a bit on portion sizes or rice and whatnot - go for stuff that will make you feel the most satisfied with the least bulk. For snacks, maybe something like pistachios in their shells would help - have a handful and the action of shelling them with keep you busy and draw out the action.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 28 March 2011 - 21:13
I only had about 10 days of feeling vaguely tummy-rumbly of an evening with my first and nearly 10 weeks of full-on every-waking-moment-nausea with my second! Second time around, it stopped at 14 weeks, 48 hours after I stopped taking the hormone supplements my OB/Gyn prescribed.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 28 March 2011 - 21:04
yup, our internet's been rubbish for streaming the last couple of days. Left a film to buffer for an hour before starting watching it and we're only 10 minutes in before it hangs! Rubbbbisssshhhh!
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 27 March 2011 - 23:21
I also find that eye contact is so important when dealing with violent behaviour (I also group tantrums into this, even if there's no physical violence to others). If you don't already do so, get down on their level to talk to them - never tower above. I often sit on the floor and get DD to stand so that we can talk face to face. If her gaze wanders away I bring it - and her - back to the discussion in hand. Also, observe the situation and reasons behind it. Sometimes there may be a pattern, sometimes not. In the case of physical violence, I always take DD a few paces away (to get her away from the situation), tell her that hitting is not acceptable under any circumstances and ask her why she was upset/ angry. I listen to whatever she has to say (generally " I didn't want him near me" or "I don't like him" or "I didn't want him to have my toy") and then tell her an appropriate way of dealing with that situation ("You don't hit, you need to say "Please go away"") and then we go back to the child and say "sorry for hitting/ pushing, screaming/ shouting...". She understands the mechanism now, so the naughty step isn't needed, unless she needs it to calm down.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 27 March 2011 - 23:10
PS Fun? It was practically an immaculate conception! :D tell me about it! After DD, well, let's just say, well... nothing much! Poor DH must have thought it was Christmas come early when I sprang on him that night! Bl00dy hormones! You'll be fine with 2 under 2... look at me, I have no nervous twitches and remain completely sane!
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 27 March 2011 - 23:05
Thanks everyone - you've put my mind at ease! I feel more than comfortable with my Dr and the staff so I'll go into my appointment tomorrow with knowing that I'm doing what's best for the baby and I and that we are in good hands. I really appreciate all of your kind words and for keeping me in good spirits! That's exactly the best frame of mind to be in - however you give birth, the main thing is that you are happy with your choice and that both you and your baby are in good health at the end of it. I love giving birth - really, I do - but a breech birth would have me looking at my options and a transverse... well, even I probably wouldn't attempt it.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 27 March 2011 - 21:09
seriously?! Lol! OMG! "Well done" of sorts (I'm sure it was fun!)... wow! lol (sorry - in shock too!) Gnargh, I want another one! So, is that going to be 2 under 2? And yes, I felt like that for DS... complete surprise, starting off by not being sure that I actually wanted to go through with it and coming to terms with the fact that my neatly planned family plan had been blown out of the water with my raging hormones! After my first pg, which ended at 8 weeks, I never get my hopes up until I'm past the 12 week mark. Just take care of yourself and the rest will take care of itself! <em>edited by Hello.Again.Kitty on 27/03/2011</em>
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 27 March 2011 - 20:59
I think Baby & Me have them - don't know the price though www.babyandme.net --- can't see any on their site, but I know they had some. I'd email if I were you. <em>edited by Hello.Again.Kitty on 27/03/2011</em>
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 27 March 2011 - 20:55
It'll say if they offer delivery or not, but on something that big, it's likely to be buyer collects. They're certainly not going to drive round to your or pack it up and send it in the post! Have a look on "Friday ads" - it's a bit more like Dubizzle and you can choose to search in areas local you where you're staying. Gumtree is another, as well as Freecycle. Have fun! Friday ads is brilliant.
1861
Posts
EW EXPERT
Latest post on 27 March 2011 - 20:37
Thanks HAK. I'm hoping that we won't need them too long before mister realizes that he needs to go before he actually goes :) haha - that will depend on the child! We used them with DD, and rather than helping her learn, they helped me keep calm and minimise washing... for her, only time and her own will stopped her having accidents!