Breastfeeding questions

oh you've moved back home, lucky you!! alternative addiction, hmmmm online shopping? what with delivery being that much easier... but stay on EW please, once an expat woman, always an expat woman :) xxxx yar... and it is nice to be back. A strange sense of being back in the real world! lol I have to say though, it's really hit home to what extent mums in Dubai are out on a limb - I was called up a couple of days ago by a speech therapist who just wanted to check on DS and tell me about a free speech therapy group in my area. I also popped in to our local Children and Family Centre where they have loads of support groups, activities, health professionals and most are either free or ask for a donation (if you can afford it, and it's like 5aed) to cover for the tea, coffee and biscuits! They run a bf support group there, which inspired me to create [url=https://www.facebook.com/groups/277564193389/'>Breastfeeding Mums in Dubai[/url'> Anyhow... back to the real real world and my pesky children.

I should hope so. Thats the beauty of advice though. We can get everyone else's opinions and then go ahead and do what we were going to do anyway :D The problem is though, that some people genuinely don't know what to do and will follow the consensus of the majority. We've kind of forgotten how much we had to learn - and quickly, at that - and I only have a vague recollection of quite how daunting I found all the different opinions. It's a big call to forge your own way confidently, something that only a very small percentage of mums can do (and I'm not one of them!). I remember on this forum, there was one thread where a 1st time mum was asking advice on a 2 week old baby who was bf and hadn't poo'd in 24 hours. The number of people who genuinely suggested suppositories (one even went as far as suggesting a dollop of vaseline inserted on the end of a rectal thermometer!) beggared belief... I don't know what the mum did in the end, but there were certainly more in the suppository camp than in the "let nature take its course" camp! edited by Hello.Again.Kitty on 08/01/2012 My point exactly. Especially with babies you should be getting solid, educated advice when it comes to eating and health. Forums can't always give that... and as KW just pointed out below, many medical professionals can't always give it either especially when it comes to breastfeeding, doh. You really have to search out and find someone that you trust when it comes to your new bubs. But I do think that the forums are great to hear experiences and to know that you're not alone, as KW said and while it is possible to get some good advice you really have to be selective. And I agree, HAK, your experiences are always welcome here. :) <em>edited by SweetLily on 08/01/2012</em>

I remember on this forum, there was one thread where a 1st time mum was asking advice on a 2 week old baby who was bf and hadn't poo'd in 24 hours. The number of people who genuinely suggested suppositories (one even went as far as suggesting a dollop of vaseline inserted on the end of a rectal thermometer!) beggared belief... I don't know what the mum did in the end, but there were certainly more in the suppository camp than in the "let nature take its course" camp! lol, I posted something like that on a different forum when my EBF had gone a week and got the same advice ,sad thing is i've heard the same advice from Drs, had a friend who was giving her EBF baby suppositories for months under docs advice. I've had some great advice from EW though (and Doha Mums) and sometimes its just nice to know you're not the only one who doesn't fit a pattern described in a book. If only to commiserate together.

oh you've moved back home, lucky you!! alternative addiction, hmmmm online shopping? what with delivery being that much easier... but stay on EW please, once an expat woman, always an expat woman :) xxxx

I should hope so. Thats the beauty of advice though. We can get everyone else's opinions and then go ahead and do what we were going to do anyway :D The problem is though, that some people genuinely don't know what to do and will follow the consensus of the majority. We've kind of forgotten how much we had to learn - and quickly, at that - and I only have a vague recollection of quite how daunting I found all the different opinions. It's a big call to forge your own way confidently, something that only a very small percentage of mums can do (and I'm not one of them!). I remember on this forum, there was one thread where a 1st time mum was asking advice on a 2 week old baby who was bf and hadn't poo'd in 24 hours. The number of people who genuinely suggested suppositories (one even went as far as suggesting a dollop of vaseline inserted on the end of a rectal thermometer!) beggared belief... I don't know what the mum did in the end, but there were certainly more in the suppository camp than in the "let nature take its course" camp! <em>edited by Hello.Again.Kitty on 08/01/2012</em>

good advice as always HAK, where have you been lately? we've missed you! Well, I've had a bit of a busy couple of months - packing up our stuff, moving back to the UK, settling in, family Christmas, shoehorning the kids into childcare and sorting out the house so that we've at least vaguely got room for all our boxes. I'm also now sorting through the hoard of baby stuff that I've accumulated (word to the wise 1st timers - just don't buy lots of stuff!) and sticking them on small ads, which takes an age. I guess I should stop lurking on EW, but hey, I haven't yet found an alternative addiction! :-0

as for routine - 4 days old... he's very young for a routine and to be honest, it's not the be and and end all. Heck, I'm [cough'> 30-something and am still not in a routine! It all depends if you, as a family, work well on a routine or not - some of my friends, even pre-kids would do their ironing at a set time and eat their meals on the dot... I, on the other hand, am a bit less organised, so setting a strict routine for bubs was just a bit strange. Saying that, learn to observe - it will serve you in exceptionally good stead. Your baby will fall into its own pattern and you'll probably find that if you break it down, the same things happen at around about the same time. Don't get too het up with it though, because as bubs grows and develops, s/he will adjust these patterns! good advice as always HAK, where have you been lately? we've missed you!

Sometimes (oftentimes?) there is bad breastfeeding advice that goes around on this forum that can be harmful Has anyone's baby been harmed from some EW advice? Or is that statement just for effect? I would hope that people take the advice gleaned from any forum as just people's opinions rather than hard and fast, medically sound, fully referenced recommendations I should hope so. Thats the beauty of advice though. We can get everyone else's opinions and then go ahead and do what we were going to do anyway :D

Sometimes (oftentimes?) there is bad breastfeeding advice that goes around on this forum that can be harmful Has anyone's baby been harmed from some EW advice? Or is that statement just for effect? I would hope that people take the advice gleaned from any forum as just people's opinions rather than hard and fast, medically sound, fully referenced recommendations, although obviously when those opinions are fully referenced, then they're probably quite sound! I always get worried when people ask things like "my baby has been vomiting for 4 days, what should I do?" and then get every man and his dog suggesting home remedies, concoctions or even medicines. Er, no - you should go to the Dr if you're concerned!

For clarification on the foremilk/hindmilk issue and the importance of emptying the breast, this article from a Le Leche League lactation consultant might be helpful: [url=http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/lv/lvsepoct95p69a.html'>Finish the First Breast First[/url'> This is also another helpful one from LLL with some common breastfeeding misconceptions about breastfeeding: [url=http://www.llli.org/nb/lvaprmay98p21nb.html'>Common breast feeding myths[/url'> Myth 9: Breastfeeding mothers must always use both breasts at each feeding. Fact: It is more important to let baby finish the first breast first, even if that means that he doesn't take the second breast at the same feeding. Hindmilk is accessed gradually as the breast is drained. Some babies, if switched prematurely to the second breast, may fill up on the lower-calorie foremilk from both breasts rather than obtaining the normal balance of foremilk and hindmilk, resulting in infant dissatisfaction and poor weight gain. In the early weeks, many mothers offer both breasts at each feeding to help establish the milk supply. If you are concerned about foremilk, the major sign to watchout for is, as SL said, poos. The main sign of an imbalance in the intake of foremilk is green, frothy, acidic "explosive" poos (charming, eh?). HTH to clear it up

Sometimes (oftentimes?) there is bad breastfeeding advice that goes around on this forum that can be harmful Has anyone's baby been harmed from some EW advice? Or is that statement just for effect?

as for routine - 4 days old... he's very young for a routine and to be honest, it's not the be and and end all. Heck, I'm [cough'> 30-something and am still not in a routine! It all depends if you, as a family, work well on a routine or not - some of my friends, even pre-kids would do their ironing at a set time and eat their meals on the dot... I, on the other hand, am a bit less organised, so setting a strict routine for bubs was just a bit strange. Saying that, learn to observe - it will serve you in exceptionally good stead. Your baby will fall into its own pattern and you'll probably find that if you break it down, the same things happen at around about the same time. Don't get too het up with it though, because as bubs grows and develops, s/he will adjust these patterns!

I found that baby language thing fascinating too SL although never watched the DVD. DS def made the neh, neh, eh eh though. I was just talking to friends last night who used it and were like, 'and then when we were in the mall we heard all the noises from the babies and so wanted to go up to parents and say "no, he's just hungry" or "try burping him"' Lol. It is a fantastic thing for parents to have in their newborn parenting kit. :)

I found that baby language thing fascinating too SL although never watched the DVD. DS def made the neh, neh, eh eh though.

Hi ilovewine! Congratulations on your baby! How exciting. :) I just want to say that the best way to get great breastfeeding advice is to speak with a trained supporter or lactation consultant. Sometimes (oftentimes?) there is bad breastfeeding advice that goes around on this forum that can be harmful or will just cause worry a new mama. Here's where you can speak to trained professionals right now over the telephone: Breastfeeding Friends (7 days/week, 10am-10pm) English Support Line: 050 – 8684417 Arabic Support Line: 050 – 5679525 Urdu Support Line: 050 – 9819270 Or there are LC in this online group also: Breastfeeding Q&A Yahoo Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/breastfeedingqa Those will be two reliable places to get information and advice until you can get to see an LC, which I would very much recommend if you think that you are having trouble with latch. Also, there are trained supporters once a month at the Organics cafe: "Breastfeeding Q&A is pleased to announce the resumption of monthly meet-ups at the Organic Cafe in Dubai Mall on the 3rd Saturday of each month, 12 noon. La Leche League has been running these meetings for a while, but now that LLL Leader Cathryn is sadly leaving Dubai, we will be picking up the slot again. These are informal get togethers where breastfeeding and expectant mums can chat, ask questions, and swap breastfeeding stories. The first meeting will be on Saturday 21st January. ABM Breastfeeding Counsellor Sian and Breastfeeding Q&A founder Farangis will be there, and look forward to meeting as many of you as possible :)." (from their FB page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Breastfeeding-QA-UAE/150974098253197) As for a schedule, I suppose what I would say is to watch the baby rather than the clock. You can switch sides after every feed, if that feels right to you. Don't worry about foremilk and hindmilk. They work together and are really only a problem if you have long times in between feed or if you have an over abundance of milk (and then there would be other symptoms that would be coming up). It is often that babies don't head into a schedule until they are a little bit older. Right now he's just sorting out his new environment. :) At this point in order to know that he is getting all that he needs from the feeds go ahead and look at his poos. They should be changing from dark brown to green to yellow (winnie the poo) colour and will look like they have little seeds in them. That and wet nappies (6-8 a day for disposable diapered babies and 8-10 a day for cloth diapered babies) and weight gain (but it is very common for babies to lose up to 10% of their birth weight in those first few days) are a fantastic way to know that all is going well with nursing. As far as listening to cues goes, have you ever heard of the Dunstan Baby Language? It is super interesting and I've found really helpful for new mamas (including myself). Here's a link: http://www.dunstanbaby.com/cms/index.php?page=nz-home Her research shows that all babies, across cultures, have certain cries specific for their needs. For example, Neh is the cry for hunger. Here she is explaining it on Oprah in the States: http://www.veoh.com/watch/v910865YY3TMwrp?h1=Priscilla+Dunstan+at+Oprah+show Hope that helps. I would say go ahead and contact a professional supporter as soon as you are able so that you can get those questions answered. Congratulations again! xx

Time of feed will depend on the rate your baby sucks, the rate of your letdown, the time of day (milk is produced in different quantities at different times of the day), and the average amount your breasts naturally store each (usually there is a significant different per breast for each woman so the amount of time to empty will even vary depending on the side you're feeding from). So its not really possible to judge breast emptiness based on time, and certainly should not put a time expectation on how long your baby should feed for. As mentioned - there is no harm to let him continue to suck on one side if you are unsure - if he's still hungry he'll still suck and get the milk from the other side when its offered either way, so there is nothing to lose. Hindmilk and foremilk both serve there purpose - that's why they are both there. Its impossible to get "only hindmilk" - because you must first drink all the foremilk in one breast to get to the hindmilk. It [i'>is[/i'> possible to drink only foremilk and miss the hindmilk in both breasts altogether if switching between breasts too soon. Two half boobs of fore milk is not equal to one breast of foremilk plus hindmilk. Milk begins to separate from the moment it is produced - even if you fed half hourly there would be more fat content in the foremilk than if you feed 3 hourly - but no matter how often you feed there is always more fat content in the hindmilk. Its certainly not a matter of one vs the other - both are there for a reason and thats why it is important to actually get the full amount of both of them by emptying one breast before starting on the other. Its just as easy to empty one breast than to swap to the other, and the indicators below are all very good at letting you know when its time to switch. An LC will definitely assist to clarify this for you if unsure, as its probably more confusing to get conflicting advice than to have none at all :S

oh and in answer to your original question, I'd def be inclined to count it as one feed, if you are counting up your 8-10 feeds per day. I would check with your LC when they come and observe re the hindmilk, if he is emptying the breast in that first 20 minutes then he's probably not getting a whole lot of milk in the second 20 minutes vs if you gave him the other side so she can help you learn to read the suck pattern. No problem putting him back on the same one again if you feel it is still full but I wouldn't limit sides to one per feed at this point. (as in always [b'>offer[/b'> the other side once he's done with the first, but its ok if he's happy with just one, the key is [b'>offering[/b'> it). The foremilk/hindmilk thing becomes more of an issue if your feeds are spaced further apart, (you produce whole milk and only separates if it spends a long time in the breast). In theory, once they have got to the hindmilk/emptied the boob they will pop off and then be keen to drink from the next boob, or be satisfied with just one depending on how hungry they are, how much milk is in each boob etc but in practice my guy rarely popped off by himself until he was more like 8 weeks so I did used to switch breasts after around 20/30 minutes a side if I felt he wasn't really drinking anymore. Some babies just like to suck for comfort and will doggedly keep going waiting for another letdown for hours at a time while others are more onto it with popping off and rooting for the next breast when the first one is done. Also don't think of hindmilk as "good" and foremilk as rubbish, foremilk is full of carbs and all the water soluble vitamins/nutrients and you wouldn't want your baby to get only hindmilk, or only foremilk, your aim is that the baby will get the complete milk and plenty of it (total volume of milk consumed not hindmilk vs foremilk is best predictor of weight gain.) I think its easy to read a lot about foremilk/hindmilk and obsess about whether your baby has got enough when really, if he seems satisfied and wants to move on to the other breast, just trust he knows what he is doing. Hope you are remembering to sleep whenever he sleeps, you have an energy burst the first few days post birth and its easy to run yourself ragged but sleep is so important! xx <em>edited by kiwispiers on 08/01/2012</em>

Congrats Ilovewine! I would definitely recommend starting now on establishing a routine (I'm not necessarily suggesting you should put time expectations on it - follow your babies cues, but definitely have a routine in the sense of having a purpose to the way you do all things). I believe the reason so many people have many struggles and tears when trying to establish routines later, is because they have not laid the foundations earlier on. If you develop good habits now - a routine will grow without you even trying. It is a lot easier to initiate good habits than to change bad ones later on. Firstly - it is normal to have some tenderness and slight pain when establishing breastfeeding. It should not be unbearable or searing - so if you are concerned about that, do seek a LC. Latching is a LOT more difficult than we assume it will be. I imagined my son would be hungry and just take a mouthful - how naive, lol! It took me without exaggeration at least a dozen tries to get DS to latch ever y feed for the first 1-2 weeks. His latch would break more than once each feed and we'd have to start all over again. I very nearly gave up - but do persevere and it gets easier. Its very much a case of causing the root reflex, then timing perfectly to literally shove (for lack of a better word) the breast in at the right moment that he closes his mouth. My grandmother was helpful and told me the following: hold and squeeze the nipple and some surronding breast tissue between index finger and middle finger (so that you can aim it, and its kind of makes the nipple point out more) , hold babies head with other hand, brush nipple against babies cheek to cause rooting reflex and then use hand on babies head to assist his head forward onto the breast. This helped so much with getting him to take a big mouthful of breast, which helps him suck more effectively and eases any nipple pain. With regards to feeding - without causing a debate, in my opinion you should aim to empty the breast and get the hindmilk. Obviously don't worry yourself hysterical if you are unsure - but if its possible, then its better to get it than to not. Babies lose weight in the first few days after birth - the hindmilk is what will assist him gain it back more quickly. Also, the emptier your breast - the more your body responds to milk production which is very good when your milk is first coming in. Hindmilk is digested slower - so it will also assist to develop longer spaces between feeds (if this is what you are aiming for). If you are worried about knowing when the breast is empty - here are some tips. Especially during the beginning when your milk comes in, you will possibly just feel it (this is the 'melon' stage) where you may feel your breasts are like rocks when full of milk, then deflated balloons when emptied. Some women do not experience this to the extent of others - but you are still about to tell by how many times your baby sucks per swallow. Swallowing is a reflex caused when the mouth is full. At the beginning of a feed baby will suck several times per swallow - at the beginning the milk comes slowly until your letdown reflex beginning. Once your letdown reflex trigger the milk flows quickly and you will notice the number of sucks per swallow decreases - he will likely be sucking 1-2 times per swallow. As the milk in the breast decreases - baby will beginning suck increasingly more before swallowing (indicating its taking more effort to get a mouthful. This means he's getting the hindmilk). You will know to switch breasts when he is sucking many times before swallowing (meaning the milk has slowed down/breast is emptied). If quite hungry, some babies may even get restless or cry when the breast is empty and they are sucking and not getting much milk. Another way is to just check yourself, and try to hand express - if the milk comes out readily and easily you will be able to feed on that breast a little longer. If it takes some effort - you know its emptied quite well. If still unsure - there is absolutely no harm to just let him continue to suck for a little longer either way if it would make you more confident. If he is still hungry he will continue when switched to the next breast either way. At the most - the extra sucking will be good for stimulating milk production. A good technique is to give one full breast, then burp in between, then offer the next breast as a top up (you will often find even if baby stopped sucking and seemed full, that after a good burp they will readily take some more). You may also find you might need to burp before the first breast is finished. Thats fine too - but judge breast emptiness by the suck/swallow not by when he needs to burp. Its ok to burp and then resume the same breast then continue on the other if he will still take more. Also - unless your baby takes 2 full breastfuls, remember to alternate which breast you start with each feed. As a newborn, it is not unusual to have to wake your baby up one or more times during a feed. Falling asleep is not an indicator of having finished - newborns are very sleeping, sucking is hard work for them, and feeding is relaxing. If you're aiming for spaced feeds - make sure you wake them to ensure they get a as big a feed as they will take. If my son dozed off mid feed I would use burping as means to wake him up again - or even a nappy change to make him more alert to continue feeding until full. With sleeping - it is important at this stage to just follow baby's cues as opposed to a timed schedule. You should definitely aim to learn your babies tired cues, and initiate your sleep 'routine' before they get to the point of being unsettled/crying. Crying is a sign of being overtired - so try to really watch him, if you get to the point of crying when tired try to remember what his behaviours were immediately prior to that. If you time it right - you will not need any soothing or sleep aids. Newborns sleep very easily and sleep associations start literally from birth. If you get it more or less happening from the beginning - you will not go through the crying and struggles that many parents go through later when creating a routine means breaking associations and habits that had been forming since birth. If you dont wait until baby is over-tired they wont cry to sleep. If you get yourself following your babies cues and un-aided sleeping from birth - you will find the routine just develops on its own without you having to plan it or put conscious effort. One of the best pieces of advice I can offer with sleeping - is if your baby goes to sleep while being breastfed or cuddled - ALWAYS wake them before you put them to bed for sleep. Otherwise the association with being fed or cuddled to sleep will be picked up in no time and thats when you're faced later with having to feed/cuddle/pat/rock to sleep, or go through a period of crying out while those associations are broken. Its tempting when the baby is newborn to cuddle to sleep and its going to happen sometimes anyway as baby is so sleepy at this stage. Often parents will make a point of being so quiet and moving so slowly not to wake the baby when you put them down. It will have the opposite effect of what you are actually aiming for. Babies natural sleep cycle is to stir/wake slightly every 60-90mins. If the baby was asleep in the arms or at the breast - when they stir they will awake unsettled looking for that comfort again (if you indulge you will further re-enforce it). If you make sure they were awake when placed in bed then settle to sleep there naturally, then they will not associate needing breast or cuddles to go to sleep, and when they go through their natural 60-90minute stirs, they will not awake unsettled but re-settle themselves and continue to sleep. I used to wrap my son as a signal that it was sleep time, and also just as its a comfort for newborns. If he stirred or appeared unsettled when I knew he still needed more sleep, I would unwrap and re-wrap as a way to signal its still sleep time and to let him know I am still there, and we would just resettle again by himself. Some people do not like the idea of wrapping - that is just what worked for us as an added cue for sleep time without using any aids like rocking/teeddies/dummies/feeding etc. Its up to each individual what works for them. Buy the 3rd to 4th month I had stopped wrapping, as they can move around at the stage and its important they can use their hands/arms to lift their head if they roll onto their stomach. My other main advice would be to make sure even during the night to follow the same pattern of waking baby to ensure the feeds a completed fully, and ensuring if baby goes to sleep that you make the point of stirring him a little when putting him back into bed so that he is not forming the associations with feeding/cuddling and sleep (it is soooo much harder to be diligient at nights when you are exhausted, but you will thank yourself later when your baby sleeps through and sleeps with no tears and your friends are all struggling even at 1 year to get and keep their baby asleep). This is just what worked for us, and I had full nights sleep from early on and no-cry sleep times more or less from the beginning. As with all advice, you can take and leave what you feel works for you :) Enjoy your new bubba! Edited for typos :) <em>edited by punchbiffpow on 08/01/2012</em>

Ds is 4 days old. If He feeds from 8am to 820am then burp and sleep a little bit then feed again (on the same breast) at 9am or so, does that count as one feed and has he reached the good, hind milk? I dont think my milk has fully come in yet, but there seems to be more and its a different consistency than colostrum. My n1pples are sore! But we manage so im about to phone a lactation consultant to see if someone could come to mine for assistance. Its hit and miss but we do latch correctly eventually, i would of course like it to happen sooner but we're learning. I wanted to put ds into a routine but it seems thats not going to work right now, his feeding is more important. Or am i silly? Ds crying, got to run. ilovewine - massive congratulations. Even if he latches properly your nipples may be a bit sore (not too much though). seeing a LC is a great idea! I found dr. Newman web site great to understand how latch the baby http://www.breastfeedinginc.ca/ Remeber to sit back, bring your LO tummy to tummy and direct his nose to your nipple, than put him on the brest when his mouth is wide open (never bring breast to your child). Hope dr. Newman's website will help you with this. I wouldnt worry about the milk, time of feeding etc. As long as your son is latched ok and provided he doesnt have any medical condition - he will get what he should. Dont watch the clock and belive in your body! :) As kwispiers said learn his cues. I am sure you will now soon what is 'i am hungry' cry and what is 'i have a wet nappy' or 'im bored'. I would wait for a couple of weeks to think about a routine, but would defenitely bath and dress baby for sleep roughly at the same time so he can assosiate this with a night later in time. Good luck!

Given you are still having latching issues I def focus on getting breastfeeding well established right now. Get the LC sooner rather than later, you can read and read and read but having somebody physically sitting in the room with you looking at how you are doing it makes such a difference. (like trying to learn yoga from a book or DVD vs having an instructor). I would offer both breasts at every feed and not worry about the foremilk/hindmilk thing. Once he pops off one breast (assuming he eventually does pop off) then offer him the other side, if he doesn't take much from that side then start on that side the next time around, to make sure that both breasts are being fairly evenly emptied and your supply stimulated as much as possible. According to Dr Weissbluth (a prominent figure in the field of baby sleep research) during the first 4 months babies will sleep when they are tired (so long as given the opportunity) and don't show consistent (by the clock) patterns until around the 4 month mark. According to the baby whisperer books, props (rocking, dummys etc, are not a problem in the first few months), basically don't fret about routine at this point. Its great to introduce sleep cues from birth but don't worry about fitting to a clock. I used to feed my guy when he woke, then give him some cuddles, then swaddle and lay him in his moses basket next to me on the couch and he'd lay there looking up and me and eventually drift off to sleep. He eventually learnt to associate the swaddle with sleep and has always been happy to go to sleep in his own bed, that said if he fell asleep on me I didn't wake him and I often let him sleep on me rather than transfer him, I don't think you need to be religious about these things. Also if he did cry when I laid him down, I always picked him up, the very first thing I wanted to "teach" him was that he had a mummy and she was always listening and always was there if he needed her. You can try and show your baby the difference between day and night, to get his natural circadian rhythms started. So make night feeds quiet, under very dim lights, don't spend a lot of time burping etc and lay him down once he is fed and content. You want to feed approx 8-10 times a day so if he's a bit sleepy still and you need to wake him for any feeds, make it during the day and let him sleep however he wants at night (unless of course there are any issues with his weight and your Dr or LC has suggested you need to wake him through the night to get enough feeds in). Make daytime apparent by feeding in a brighter room, taking him out into daylight as much as possible (esp first thing in the morning). Biggest tip is focus on learning your babies cues, right now they are far more important. Hunger is often quite obvious (baby starts rooting, esp if you brush his cheek and making little eh eh eh nosies) whereas tired signs can take longer to learn, baby might get restless, more active, less active, wide owl eyes (looking VERY awake) etc rather than just obvious ones like yawning. You want to avoid getting to the point of crying because its much harder for a baby to feed or go to sleep once they are distressed (obviously your baby will cry at times but you'll get better and better at this). I think once you are more in tune with your baby its far easier to objectively and confidently approach and adapt a routine to fit with you. Basically just take some time and don't stress about it so early on in the game. xxx <em>edited by kiwispiers on 08/01/2012</em>