BF-ing and weaning question...

Hi Sunsa Excellent reply from kiwispiers! As you say, breastmilk provides all the hydration an EBF baby requires, but now solids are introduced she will require just sips. Breastfeeding before solids will make sure she continues to get the nutrition from breastmilk that she needs, along with the hydration - you'll most likely find that she doesn't want more than a few sips of water with her food then. Thanks for your kinds words, ladies. I love that EW provides us women the opportunity to support each other. Sunsa, I am a registered breastfeeding counsellor with the Association of Breastfeeding Mothers in the UK, an organisation which provides free information and support to breastfeeding families. Here in the UAE I'm involved in the Dubai-based peer support group Breastfeeding Q&A, and I also offer phone support.

She shouldn't really have that much water, my wee guy loves it too and would drink as much as I would give him but I restrict it, he will take less milk as a result and thus miss out on the nutrients. At 6 months babies don't properly digest a lot of the "solids" you are giving, so they are not absorbing nutrients from them as well as you can which is why milk should be their main source of food until they are 12 months old. Technically you don't need to give any water at all, especially if you are adding water to purees, but if you'd like her to get a bit to keep her enthusiastic, make sure you first breastfed, then give solids and if she wants a little sip of water after that at least you don't have to worry that it is filling her tummy. Breastmilk actually contains an enzyme that helps digest complex carbs, so its a really good idea to breastfeed right before a meal of solids as babies don't digest starches very well until they are over 12 months (so they can get really gassy and uncomfortable as the food ferments in their gut). Another reason why baby rice is actually not a great first food despite not being very allergenic. We started with fruit then meat then vegies and now we give a little regular rice pudding or quinoa.

Posting my query here as it is so relevant to the thread topic. Just started my 6 mo on solids. She is learning the ropes, just added a second meal. She is okay with the solids but she absolutely looooves to drink water. My clever Missy now recognizes her food bowl from her water cup and gestures towards the water so enthusiastically. I am giving it to her with a spoon during the solid. She easily drinks up 1 to 2 oz in one meal. Is that ok. Am concerned as don't want the water to replace even an ounce of BM. Is she really thirsty? I thought BM is enough to quench the thirst. We r extra careful with the hot weather, she goes out only a bit around 7 am and then she is mostly indoors, so can't possibly be sweating. Btw, BFC love reading your comments. Are u a LC or a midwife and working any where?

I have breastfed three children to 12months. I found in all three as solids were introduced at 6months, slowly they just started to prefer a real meal. By 1 year, it just happened...poof. By then though, we were down to a very short night time suckle. I just replaced that special time with cuddles and a bit of rocking and laid them down. Each child responded to this initially different. My daughter cried for about 10-20 minutes ( this was very hard and midwife strongly encouraged letting her learn to self-soothe, broke my heart), settled and then went to sleep, My second son fell asleep in my arms (almost), my third son refused to be cuddled and was laid down wide awake and played until he fell asleep (30 minutes of silly sounds and such). Funny, they are 5, 4 and 2.5 and this is strangely indicative of their personalities. hmmmm. I have no regrets and feel I have done the right thing as the Mother of m own children. It is different for everyone. I will admit though.... with the first child I was hugely ambitious, second I was strongly confident and by the third I just had to do it AGAIN because I had done it for the first two. :\:

Fab thread! And I have to echo massive thanks for BFC too. I had a really difficult time at one point with DD2 and your support was just wonderful at a time of anxiety - it's just such a shame it's not always there from the healthcare system at birth and in the weeks/months that follow. I had BF my first in the UK and therefore did have the confidence to do it when I was basically advised against. If I were a first time mama I don't know if my resolve would have been as strong... My little prem is now weaning at 9 months and is largely breastfed. I hope to come to one of the BF events - she's doing really well.

I too agree that its too easy to put your baby onto formula. Make DH do the night feeds and wake up too so he suffers from lack of sleep aswell!! A friend of mine even brags about putting her baby onto formula so that her bf has to get up in the night too!! LOL - at least she is being honest :D And fully agree with your last statement Meals! I know there are a few informal Breastfeeding groups in Dubai, these women are doing a wonderful job - in offering support, sharing knowledge and spreading the "good" news ;)

As we knew my dd couldnt latch on and i wanted to give her the best start in life, my dh went and bought our own breast pump and it was the best buy ever. I expressed every 3 hours for 5 months and built up a big supply in the freezer. Three cheers for Emily! What a fab thing you did for your little one! And three cheers for all you other exclusively pumping mums - it takes real perserverance! Three cheers for all the mums who struggled with breastfeeding and made it through. Three cheers for all the mums who struggled with breastfeeding but could not continue. And three cheers for all the mums (and others) who have never breastfed, but support a mum's decision to breastfeed if she wants to. Here's to a society where breastfeeding is normalised and supported with more than just lip service.

Ive loved reading this thread. Thankyou. I too agree that its too easy to put your baby onto formula. Make DH do the night feeds and wake up too so he suffers from lack of sleep aswell!! A friend of mine even brags about putting her baby onto formula so that her bf has to get up in the night too!! My dd couldn't latch on as she had a medical condition that prevented this. The lactation consultant at the hospital was amazing and we kept trying her whilst i was in hospital. Because she wasnt latching the midwives came at regular intervals and expressed milk out into a little cup only getting out a little bit each time. I was then given the electric hospital pump to dit it myself and my dd continued to have EBM (her first feed was 0.5ml,bless her!). As we knew my dd couldnt latch on and i wanted to give her the best start in life, my dh went and bought our own breast pump and it was the best buy ever. I expressed every 3 hours for 5 months and built up a big supply in the freezer. At one point i had over 2 months supply of millk (good job we had a chest freezer!!). But like each of you have said, each to their own and i hope i havent offended anyone. :-)

plumie, how can you say us saffirs have been in the dark ages? :D I actually find that not everyone breastfeeds - some of my friends and acquaintances do, many don't because they can't or they just find it tiresome and an effort. A lot of people don't understand why it's so important to me and why I BF for so long. I think 1 of the reasons many Capetonions do is because a large part of the community is Muslim and breastfeeding until the age of 2yrs is strongly recommended in Islam. It is stated that every baby has the right to be breastfed until 2yrs - this information was part of our religion before the WHO discovered it :D We have many allergies and intolerances in the family so I delayed solids until 6mths with Kid1 - no issues starting solids, nor with allergies or appetite, etc. Kid 2 was BF for 17mths (at which time I was 3mths pregnant and was battling a bit) and started solids at 6mths - no issues either. But, Kid3 is bigger than his siblings and is a very hungry baby so I started solids at 21 wks (just before 5mths). Interestingly, my paed has told me about new research from the UK that is now recommending solids be started between 4-6mths (as opposed to the "start at 6mths" research of the last few years.) He said the reason for this is that many babies were found to have an iron deficiency at 4mths and that they needed supplements (preferably from solids) as BM doesn't provide it all at that age. Had Kid3 not been a hungry baby, I probably would have waited until 6mths. Having said that, I don't think there's a textbook rule for all babies. Some will be ready at 4mths, others a bit later. As long as we're not feeding earlier than 4mths, why beat ourselves up about what everyone else is doing or saying? :)

I BF each child for 1 year - which is when they could start drinking cow's milk - but there are so many adapted cow's milk versions out there for 1-3 yr olds which makes the transition. If you can, BF for as long as possible - God made us women like this for good reason! It is THE BEST food for your bubs. Weaning too early can cause digestive complications - just like toilet training, why does society tell us to hurry? I really feel sorry for this women who have to go back to work when their baby is young, and they don't have a choice to BF, or it is really tough to keep up with the pump. My own sister really struggled to BF but it just didn't work for her. I went through absolute agony with my second, and I was a so-called experienced BF'er - but I knew the benefits and I knew how much easier life actually is with a BF baby. So if you are a stay at home Mum, or work from home like me, then GO FOR IT as long as possible. You'll be doing your child a favour... If you can't, then don't worry, and just do what YOU feel is right. P.S. Babies SHOULD NOT be eating chicken wings and chocolates - their little bodies simply cannot break down these foods correctly. We are not being complicated, we are educated, and so we know what we should NOT be doing. We have medical research for a reason, take advantage of it and don't ignore the warnings. Look at how many SIDS death as have been prevented because we listen to our docs and don't allow our babies to sleep on their stomach...we may have turned out OK from the old school ways, but why not try and give our kids even better options than we had.... Good luck and completely disregard any of my comments if they do not suit you - every woman/mother/child is different - do what your instinct tells you!

So I could possibly skip rice cereal all together when J is ready and move straight to veggies? What about wheat cereal like weetabix? Yup! Wheat cereal is probably not really necessary either - and I'd certainly wait until all the signs of readiness are there as wheat is potentially allergenic is introduced too early - but there's no reason that you couldn't give it to him if you wanted! You may receive conflicting information about when to start solids with a preemie - generally speaking the same rules of thumb apply regarding developmental readiness, but you may hear suggestions to start early as preemies are often born with low iron stores. You could always ask for his iron levels to be tested if you're worried, and if they're low consider supplementation if you're not ready to introduce solids yet.

So where does the education come from then? Their Mothers, Aunts, Freinds - possibly? But more so, the fact that half of the population lives below the average belt, so no money for formula, bottles etc. there simply is no choice, and magically breastfeeding works! Absolutely. In other parts of the world, such as the UK and the UAE, breastfeeding has become a lost art. Mothers, friends, and aunts may not have breastfed themselves, and so new mums find that not only have they grown up not seeing breastfeeding happen around them, but that they also have no experienced breastfeeders in their circle of family of friends to provide help when things don't go as hoped. Learning to breastfeed is what they call "observational learning;" if we have never seen it, it can be rather difficult to learn to do it! Another factor I think is that we have come to not trust our bodies. If formula is all around us (even provided to us in hospital "in case you need it"), if many mums we know have struggled with breastfeeding or chosen formula, we worry that we might not be able to manage it - and confidence is a big factor, I feel. Another factor is that medical professionals also come from the formula generation. Lactation, breastfeeding management and infant nutrition are not typical parts of medical training so when a mum needs help, doctors are often not able to help and so do the only thing they know how - recommend formula. (Please note it is not my intent in the slightest to knock formula, and even less mums who choose or feel they need to use it. I do however strongly feel that mums need a lot more support and evidence-based information, both from society and the medical profession, to enable them to make appropriate choices and breastfeed successfully should they wish to do so.) An ex collegue of mine is from one of the South East Asian Countries. Flipping through her FB pictures one day, I saw her son, who was 5 months at the time - waving a chicken drumstick in his hand :\: and he was eating it! At six months his mouth was full of chocolate and cream, from a cake that he dove head first in! I posed this question to a midwife over the week-end - Do we over complicate things too much in the Western World with regards to babies and nutrition? How as he [i'>able[/i'> to eat Adult food and not suffer any severe complications, at such a young age?! Yes, I think we do complicate things! What has become known as "baby-led weaning" and is often considered a bit of a new thing is actually taking note of a child's normal development and feeding them appropriately. <em>edited by BFC on 10/05/2011</em>

Why is Dubai so behind (read: backwards) WRT breastfeeding education and encouragement for mum's? Why isn't there a push for ALL malls to have bf-ing rooms? (i.e. Dubai Mall is great but the newer MCC has none!). Why don't hospitals have facilities? City Hospital is noticeably lacking despite having a LC? Interesting question and interesting thread :) When I went home a few weeks back, it was not even a question whether I was breastfeeding, it was just assumed that I was. SA has been in the dark ages for many years, HOWEVER nearly every Mum you meet, whether be 16yrs old or 36yrs old - breastfeeds! And the hospitals do not have the pleasure of having Lactation Consultants on duty! So where does the education come from then? Their Mothers, Aunts, Freinds - possibly? But more so, the fact that half of the population lives below the average belt, so no money for formula, bottles etc. there simply is no choice, and magically breastfeeding works! I find with many things in Dubai - the "blame game" comes into action - "There was no Lactation Consultant on duty" or "I just simply could not be bothered" and hence give up at the first hurdle. This of course exempts women who simply cannot breast due to physical reasons! A very good freind on mine (in fact a poster on here) tried breastfeeding her DS for many, many months, until she eventually surrendered to the fact that it simply was not working for either of them. She switched to formula and automatically things changed 360 for them! For the life of me, I could not understand why she was so persistent, until I had my first and started breast-feeding! I know applaud her for her efforts, as I now know and see the benefits :) An ex collegue of mine is from one of the South East Asian Countries. Flipping through her FB pictures one day, I saw her son, who was 5 months at the time - waving a chicken drumstick in his hand :\: and he was eating it! At six months his mouth was full of chocolate and cream, from a cake that he dove head first in! I posed this question to a midwife over the week-end - Do we over complicate things too much in the Western World with regards to babies and nutrition? How as he [i'>able[/i'> to eat Adult food and not suffer any severe complications, at such a young age?!

Why is Dubai so behind (read: backwards) WRT breastfeeding education and encouragement for mum's? Why isn't there a push for ALL malls to have bf-ing rooms? (i.e. Dubai Mall is great but the newer MCC has none!). Why don't hospitals have facilities? City Hospital is noticeably lacking despite having a LC? You could easily extend that statement to disabled facilities too. Anything that caters for anyone who isn't "the norm" here is seen as a tag-on and additional cost (not in hospitals, ofc - that would be worrying! lol!) and/or last in the queue. I have a real issue with changing facilities located in women's toilets - what about when I pack DH off to change the nappy - modern man that he is?! I also refuse to feed my children in a toilet. When I get back to work, I'm going to come down hard on such nonsense - having kids has changed my perception of the build environment no end! Blaming isn't really appropriate here, ofc, but as to the reasons for the lack of awareness of the need and provision of such facilities, I would look to the designers of buildings, the clients commissioning them and their demographic. DH comes across a lot of engineers especially who've never even considered how a person with a buggy or toddler can cross the road at 1.6m/s, or even other designers who don't seem to have understood that "less mobile" people shouldn't have to do 100m more travelling on foot than mobile people in order to find the ramp to get into the building they want to access!

Sorry, missed the question about rice cereal. When weaning was popular before 6 months, rice cereal used to be recommended as an early food as it is less likely to cause an allergic reaction, and as it's mushy is easy to feed a child who is not developmentally ready for solids. If however weaning is delayed until the signs of readiness are there, purees are not necessary (although obviously still an option), and it is also not considered necessary to begin with rice cereal to avoid allergic reactions. Since rice is basically just calories but contains very little else in the way of nutrition, meat/fruit/veg are now recommended over rice as they pack a more nutritious punch.

It is not recommended to start at 4 months, but I think some parents still do as recommendations used to be 4-6 months and this is still what sticks. Some HCPs are also going by older recommendations as it takes a while to filter through to all practices. So I would guess that this is the main reason. Another reason perhaps is that babies sometimes start to wake more often at night round about this age (often referred to as "the 4-month sleep regression"), and mums worry that it's due to hunger (although is usually isn't). Official recommendations moved to 6 months a while ago, as this is a safer blanket recommendation, but in actual fact 6 months is really just an average. Some babies are ready before, and some after - what's most important that baby is displaying all the signs of readiness.

I think there's a lot to be said for the "Magic 6 Months Button" - a lot of people see it as a major - and instant - milestone (or hurdle) to get over and then see their lives as getting so much easier - being able to relax certain aspects of baby care, being able to feed them solids, etc... But that's a good point HAK - breastmilk, or breastfeeding, is "generally" by the time you get to 6 months, easy and hassle free. Why not continue without having to worry about formula and sterilizing and prep work etc. Oh absolutely! I could never get my head around that one, personally - the same for expressing when there's no real medical or practical need... bf has to be the most convenient way of feeding - all you need is you, bubs and maybe a muslin cloth. BUT, we're coming at it from a pov that it wasn't difficult and didn't affect us. I have a friend who did start bf, but had issues with it simply due to her and how she felt as a woman. She wanted to be "her" again and part of that was stopping breastfeeding, weighed up, of course, with wanting to do the best for her baby. I have to say, though, that my extended bf-ing was helped no end by getting properly fitted with underwired nursing bras (properly fitted is key here) - it made me feel like a normal woman, without huge monoboob (when you're a G-cup, there ain't much definition out there!) and I could wear nice clothes and look good... well, normal! lol <em>edited by Hello.Again.Kitty on 10/05/2011</em>

BCF - quick question on this. I noticed you mentioned on another thread about BM being the only source of nutrients for the first 4-6 months. And then you mentioned about solids not being primary source of nutrients until LO's are beyond 12 months. Why is there such a big push to start solids so early? Why start at 4 months??? My HV in the UK told me it was to try and counter very early weaning. Back in the day, people would feed their babies all kinds of stuff from very early - my MiL suggested "a bit of cereal in the bottle" from 2 weeks old! The HV also said that some people aren't aware of what foods are appropriate for babies, and this is down to education and family pressure - the good old adage "well, my mum gave me [insert inappropriate foodstuff here'> as a baby and it never did me any harm!". She told me she'd been round someone's house who'd been giving her 3 month old baked beans, following the thinking that if it's good enough for her, it's good enough for the baby - high salt, high sugar, colourings... yeah. The 4 month mark comes from the fact that a baby's digestive system simply cannot deal with solids before then. 6 months is "the ideal" and is meant to encourage people to push weaning back as far away from the early weaning stage as possible.... a bit like a work deadline when you know the person's going to want it asap, and you know it'll be ready at say 16h, but you say it'll be ready at 18h just to make sure the person doesn't rock up before 17h30! As you know, weaning is one of the major milestones of a baby's life (or rather of the parent's life) and some will also try to wean early to just be ahead in their imagined Advanced Baby Competition...

I think there's a lot to be said for the "Magic 6 Months Button" - a lot of people see it as a major - and instant - milestone (or hurdle) to get over and then see their lives as getting so much easier - being able to relax certain aspects of baby care, being able to feed them solids, etc... The truth is it isn't a button - babies don't change overnight, and nor do their needs. Besides, I generally use guidelines as just that - for guidance, not as a hard-and-fast rule.

I'm curious too. Going on my own experience with no.1, I wonder if it's because we hear the "Exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months" message a lot, but rarely hear "Continue breastfeeding alongside complementary foods for at least 2 years." As a result, I think some mums perhaps aren't aware of health recommendations concerning bf to 2+ years. I know that I wasn't!