getting 7 month old to settle self to sleep

We used a routine Eat, activity, sleep as per the baby whisperer and Cecile. Just didnt realise how to recognise sleep cues and different cry sounds. Had to make the activity much less and look out for blinking, staring off, sneezing etc all the things i had missed until Cecile had pointed themout. By this time i had taken away my DD's ability to self settle and had to re teach her how to do this (the crying from bith sides) Hardest thing i have ever done but No 2 is on the way and am geared up for trying to get into a good routine ASAP after she is here. Dont think we wouldhave gotten to the good sleep naturally as had taken away her ability to self soothe and didn't realise how much sleep she needed. Dont think all babies thrive on timed routines although mine certainly did but i know a structured routine where mother and baby knows what happens next and most importantly consistency ie not to try something one day and not the next makes for a happier family life all round. Sounds like you found a solution that turned a situation from something that wasn't working into something that was working. Sounds like a good outcome to me. Don't feel like you have to explain it to people. Sleeping is natural, its not abandoning your child to let them sleep. Its so easy to slip into an unproductive sleep pattern - and so much more difficult to change it once your in it. Usually both mother and baby are over-tired and emotional and uncertain. Its natural for a few tears to be be shed by both until you both catch up on some sleep. Afterall, she is new to sleeping and you're new to helping a baby sleep. It takes time to learn from each other, and there's always some bumps along the way. When we are unsure of what we're doing, babies pick up on this. It is good that you sought advice - feeling confident in what you are doing in turn leads to feelings of safety and security in your baby and such huge factor in how they respond to any sleep technique whatsover. Also, learning the tired cues is so crucial to developing good sleeping habits, but its so common for new mums to not recognize them right away. It sounds like you've got this in your repertoire now, and no doubt it will help you a lot with the new addition :)

We used a routine Eat, activity, sleep as per the baby whisperer and Cecile. Just didnt realise how to recognise sleep cues and different cry sounds. Had to make the activity much less and look out for blinking, staring off, sneezing etc all the things i had missed until Cecile had pointed themout. By this time i had taken away my DD's ability to self settle and had to re teach her how to do this (the crying from bith sides) Hardest thing i have ever done but No 2 is on the way and am geared up for trying to get into a good routine ASAP after she is here. Dont think we wouldhave gotten to the good sleep naturally as had taken away her ability to self soothe and didn't realise how much sleep she needed. Dont think all babies thrive on timed routines although mine certainly did but i know a structured routine where mother and baby knows what happens next and most importantly consistency ie not to try something one day and not the next makes for a happier family life all round.

Huh? Which part was supposedly aggressive? Whether it was intentional or not, was a fairly insensitive comment. Not to mention the "How sad" comment. It certainly came across and judegemental and a bit condescending, whether intended or not. I wouldnt expect to say something like that and not have people pull me up on it.

... Like i said each to their own, wonder how we all made it to be well adjusted people when all this new age stuff is a recent concern. Lol nutty...I'm agreeing with you. Absolutely each to their own. I genuinely apologise if it read that I was dismissing your experience. Have you ever wondered if it was definitely the "routine" that made her such a good sleeper?? I think about it occasionally with my son. (ETA - that's why I asked the question...food for thought and suggesting that what works for one may not work for all) My *issue* is when people (book authors for eg who've never met the child/family) suggest that there is a one-size-fits-all timed routine that WILL work for them. That's nonsense and I like to try to help people to find something that works for them. <em>edited by Green-ish on 05/01/2012</em>

I don't think fixing times to a routine necessarily works for very young babies. I wonder if this belief that it doesn't work is in any way connect to the fact that when presented with evidence that it has worked for someone you dismiss it and say they would have done it anyway? Hrmmm. Anyone who says they don't fix times to their routine is kidding themselves. You don't encourage or aim your child's pattern to reflect day waking and night sleeping? When your baby wakes at night you get up and turn all the lights on and have play and stimulation? Or do you keep the lights low and soothe and encourage rest? Everyone fixes time expectations to their child's routine. Again with the aggression PBP. It may be in the way I wrote the post, but I did not mean there to be judgement or dismissal...yet that seems to be what you like to look for. I'm certainly not kidding myself. And I think it's pretty clear that I'm talking about specific timings over the full 24 hr period...not just night v day. I did not dismiss her experience. I'm literally just putting the question out there. Would the 'good' (convenient?) sleep patterns have happened anyway for that particular baby? Partly because I still wonder if my son would have settled on his own (although given his history I doubt it) and partly because I think a big part of these discussions needs to be getting people to really think about what *works* and what's developmental change for that child or coincidence etc. I'm happy for nutty (and any other mother) that whatever they did worked for them...that does not mean it will necessarily work for anyone else. I use "necessarily" because I am absolutely NOT dismissing it. I'm just saying it's not going to work or be possible with all young babies. I have three of my own. My sister has four children. I've watched countless Mums raise countless children and in all of that I've seen PLENTY tear their hair out and beat themselves up because the routines suggested by the 'experts' just don't fit that child or family.

The other thing to consider is that your daughter may have done this anyway. ;) As we all acknowledge, every baby is different; every parent-child relationship is different. Sure, the routines you implemented may have taught her how to sleep. Maybe she just would have done it that way anyway. May be true for some babies but really doubt it for my DD. At 5 weeks she hadnt slept for longer than an hour either on me,boob or sling. Was at the point where i wanted to return het to the hospital because she wouldn't stop crying because she was soo tired. That was the first thing Cecile taught me was how to distinguish the cries. With a lot more crying on both parts she finally learnt how to settle herself and slept 18 hours a day tll she was 6/7months and now at 16months still sleeps 12 hours at night and 3 hours in the day. I personally dont believe we would have ever have gotten there if it had not been for the sleep training with Cecile. I'm wondering what the **** was. "Feelings" and "abandonment" are very real concerns for wee babies. How sad if you've just discounted this as nonsense. :( Like i said each to their own, wonder how we all made it to be well adjusted people when all this new age stuff is a recent concern.

I used a version of CIO, similar to what DC describes, with my son and without question it worked. Maybe he would have just started sleeping on his own anyway....

I don't think fixing times to a routine necessarily works for very young babies. I wonder if this belief that it doesn't work is in any way connect to the fact that when presented with evidence that it has worked for someone you dismiss it and say they would have done it anyway? Hrmmm. Anyone who says they don't fix times to their routine is kidding themselves. You don't encourage or aim your child's pattern to reflect day waking and night sleeping? When your baby wakes at night you get up and turn all the lights on and have play and stimulation? Or do you keep the lights low and soothe and encourage rest? Everyone fixes time expectations to their child's routine.

... My DD slept through the night 7pm to 7am with an 10.30pm dream feed from 10 weeks. We started implementing a routine at about 5 weeks. Dont believe in any **** about "feelings" and "abandonement" but thats not a slight at others each to their own. Its a choice you make as an individual/couple and what suits your parenting style. People have always said to me your so lucky your DD is a great sleeper, well thats not luck that was hard work on our part and have a healthy happy secure toddler who still sleeps well. Couldn't have done it without Cecile's advice and support even though a lot of people areagainst CIO we found it worked for us and were a happier family because of it. Some of my friends babies didn't sleep through until 10/12 months but i beliveve thats choice on their part. We teach a child right from wrong so why not how to sleep. The other thing to consider is that your daughter may have done this anyway. ;) As we all acknowledge, every baby is different; every parent-child relationship is different. Sure, the routines you implemented may have taught her how to sleep. Maybe she just would have done it that way anyway. I used a version of CIO, similar to what DC describes, with my son and without question it worked. I would not for a second suggest it for a child under six months... Next two babies - same parents, same clulessness about sleep and my two girls 'slept through' from 12 & 10 weeks. I honestly believe that had nothing to do with anything my husband and I did differently...that's just the good little sleepers they are. I'm wondering what the **** was. "Feelings" and "abandonment" are very real concerns for wee babies. How sad if you've just discounted this as nonsense. :( Implementing a routine of some sort absolutely works...a routine as in wake, feed, play, soothe, bed. Particularly the wind-down and soothe part of the routine lets babies quickly know that it will soon be sleep time. I don't think fixing times to a routine necessarily works for very young babies.

Well I don't know if where I am coming from we make it differently, but I really don't believe in such things as Training to sleep. I was also a "cradle and rocking" mother for my DD, till she reached the age of 10 months or a bit more, and she could no longer fit in my arms comfortably. Then we moved to the stroller and when she turned 12 months she magically started to sleep in her crib on her own, with a bottle of milk and music. It took my a carpat tunel syndrome (more or less) a lot of effort, many sleepless nights and days, (she wasn't much of a nap sleeper as well) and several break downs to realise that; Every baby is different, every mom as well The time they are babies is so short you will definetely miss it after is gone, so enjoy it, even with extra rocking I hated myself for the times I left her crying in her cot just hoping she will fall asleep exhausted (thank God not too many times) I believe maternity is special because we turn to different people, more passionate, more generous, more caring, more everything (not to mention more weight ;) ) Don't try to settle your baby to sleep alone, he might just feel insecure and soothens himself by your smell, keep talking, singing and explaining, they are so much smarter and able to understand things than we think. I did the same, and I still do till today. It always works, not immediately, but I see it does. Be a mom to your child all 24 hours. This will never change! Let's not compare our children with other.Some sleep, some other not, some eat, some other not, some talk earlier, some will not. But still they are our children, they are unique, they deserve all the efforts! Just let your self enjoy it and it will come. You will remember me on this! My DD slept through the night 7pm to 7am with an 10.30pm dream feed from 10 weeks. We started implementing a routine at about 5 weeks. Dont believe in any **** about "feelings" and "abandonement" but thats not a slight at others each to their own. Its a choice you make as an individual/couple and what suits your parenting style. People have always said to me your so lucky your DD is a great sleeper, well thats not luck that was hard work on our part and have a healthy happy secure toddler who still sleeps well. Couldn't have done it without Cecile's advice and support even though a lot of people areagainst CIO we found it worked for us and were a happier family because of it. Some of my friends babies didn't sleep through until 10/12 months but i beliveve thats choice on their part. We teach a child right from wrong so why not how to sleep.

Well I don't know if where I am coming from we make it differently, but I really don't believe in such things as Training to sleep. I was also a "cradle and rocking" mother for my DD, till she reached the age of 10 months or a bit more, and she could no longer fit in my arms comfortably. Then we moved to the stroller and when she turned 12 months she magically started to sleep in her crib on her own, with a bottle of milk and music. It took my a carpat tunel syndrome (more or less) a lot of effort, many sleepless nights and days, (she wasn't much of a nap sleeper as well) and several break downs to realise that; Every baby is different, every mom as well The time they are babies is so short you will definetely miss it after is gone, so enjoy it, even with extra rocking I hated myself for the times I left her crying in her cot just hoping she will fall asleep exhausted (thank God not too many times) I believe maternity is special because we turn to different people, more passionate, more generous, more caring, more everything (not to mention more weight ;) ) Don't try to settle your baby to sleep alone, he might just feel insecure and soothens himself by your smell, keep talking, singing and explaining, they are so much smarter and able to understand things than we think. I did the same, and I still do till today. It always works, not immediately, but I see it does. Be a mom to your child all 24 hours. This will never change! Let's not compare our children with other.Some sleep, some other not, some eat, some other not, some talk earlier, some will not. But still they are our children, they are unique, they deserve all the efforts! Just let your self enjoy it and it will come. You will remember me on this!

nutty replied : We done sleep training with Cecile De Scaly from birth . Really ? I didnt know that a new born can be trained . Is he ready for this so early ? Is it safe ? Thanks for yr answers ladies ! <em>edited by Caramelle on 22/12/2011</em>

We done sleep training with Cecile De Scaly from birth and DD slept independantly form 10 weeks. 7pm-11pm dreamfeed 11.15pm-7am till 6 months and then 7pm-7am. She used to nap 3 times a day and was always put down awake and self settle,not sure how i'd even get her to go to sleep on me anyway! We did let her CIO during the day but never at night, she got it very quickly (4/5days). Well worth trying. A lot of people slate CIO methods but for us it was a choice we never regretted and now have a happy confident toddler. <em>edited by nutty on 21/12/2011</em>

my 7.5 month old sometimes still needs help getting off to sleep during the day (gentle patting on the bottom while he is lying in his cot) and at night starts to fall asleep feeding and is so drowsy by the time he's finished that I can put him down and he'll fall asleep..now that he is old enough to find his dummy (have 2 in the cot attached to loveys/cloths) and pop it back in he sleeps straight through, or at least if he wakes he doesn't bother us (have seen him through the video monitor find his dummy and go back to sleep). In the early morning if he wakes he's quite happy to play for a bit and then often falls back asleep until around 7.30. We did a little bit of sleep training at the 6 month mark (because he was waking every 45 min to an hour through the night and we were at the end of our tether with all the rocking and dummy replacing) which luckily he seemed to "get" straight away and after 20 mins of angry crying the first night, barely woke through the night again, except later when teething /sick/moving and banging head on sides of cot, where we always went to him straight away. So I'm not going to tell you whether or not to sleep train, or co-sleep or anything, but to simply answer your question that yes, from my perspective, my 7 month old is able to self soothe. But on the other hand sometimes he can be left to fall asleep and sometimes he needs a bit of help so we play it by ear...I'm just happy that once he's asleep we're good to go! All babies are different and they all get there eventually Hugs :)

I'm 100% on the same page as Sweetlilly. I have "the no-cry sleep solution" as a PDF if you can't track down an actual copy. I also like this website http://www.parentingscience.com/infant-sleep-problems.html From birth my son was always ok with going to sleep in his own bed, but didn't self settle in the night until he was closer to the 12 month. From about the 8 month point he woke less and less though, it does get easier even if you don't "sleep train". Sorry to hijack this thread. If its ok, Kiwispiers, could you please send me the PDF copy as well to [email protected]. TIA

I'm 100% on the same page as Sweetlilly. I have "the no-cry sleep solution" as a PDF if you can't track down an actual copy. I also like this website http://www.parentingscience.com/infant-sleep-problems.html From birth my son was always ok with going to sleep in his own bed, but didn't self settle in the night until he was closer to the 12 month mark. From about the 8 month point he woke less and less though, it does get easier even if you don't "sleep train".

Have you heard of the book 'The No Cry Sleep Solution'? I found it really helpful with our daughter when she was younger. I also like Dr. Sears advice and have found his suggestions helpful. I've put a link to some below. Your son is right at the age where you son can be experiencing some serious separation anxiety. For us we use techniques to reassure our daughter and, I know it's not for everyone, we have a family bed where we all sleep together. She is 15 months and sleeps through the night and goes down with ease. In fact, when she's tired she often climbs in bed and lays down herself. It is our belief (my husband and mine) that we must continue to parent during the night and be as active as we are when we parent during the day. That means that we comfort her, we go to her, she doesn't cry her self to sleep and we don't push for self soothing. Because of this, I feel that we've made sleep a safe place to be in for her. Of course, every parent is different and every child is different. I remind myself that if we do have any nights where she is awake, and of course we do, that it is only temporary and that we will get through this stage. Usually she is most unsettled when she's on the brink of doing something new (ie crawling, walking, talking) or if she is not feeling well or getting new teeth in. For my daughter she is a very confident and social child during the day so that means that she often uses the night to process everything that she needs to as she grows and develops. So that means that days where she is super busy or overstimulated the nights might be a bit more rough than usual. I know it is her processing what she is learning and I try to be patient as I know that this is what her brain needs to develop. Here are a couple of links that I like: http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/sleep-problems/8-infant-sleep-facts-every-parent-should-know http://www.attachmentparenting.org/principles/night.php http://parentingbabytosleep.blogspot.com/2008/04/teaching-baby-to-self-sooth.html And just wanted to respectfully make a comment about M1dono's suggestion to follow Tizzie Hall. Tizzie Hall's advice has often been somewhat dangerous as it often goes against national guidelines for SIDS prevention and safe sleeping guidelines. Her advice for nursing mothers, advocating for a routine, has been well documented to hurt nursing relationships and cause decreased supply. Here are some links that talk about Tizzy Hall: http://parentingbabytosleep.blogspot.com/2008/02/save-our-sleep-by-tizzie-hall-or-tizzy.html http://www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2011/07/tizzie-hall-fsid-formal-request-for.html Not saying anything about the way that anyone else parents. Every mother needs to do what's right for her family and her baby. Just thought that I'd throw that info out there. Hugs to you, mama. I feel for you. Nighttimes with a little one can be awful sometimes. Know that you're not alone. xx <em>edited by SweetLily on 20/12/2011</em>

Get Tizzie Hall's book 'Save our Sleep' and follow her suggested routine for ur childs age...

My DS was 7 months when we worked on his sleep. He'd learnt that he needed me and a pair of boobs in order to get himself to sleep - or get himself back to sleep - and so that's what he had to have. I was a walking zombie, with him waking up anywhere from 4 to 15 times a night and only napping erratically in the day. We saw Cecile and got him sorted with 12 hours' sleep a night and three good naps a day. It took us three days, or thereabouts. Basically all we did was put him in the cot at night after his evening feed, and sit with him patting him and singing to him until he dropped off. Cecile said we could do anything to help him get to sleep except pick him up or feed him. Of course, he protested to start with and we did have some frustrated crying (1h20mins on and off the first night, 20mins the second and none the third) but there were no real tears. When he then woke in the night for a feed, he fed and went straight back to sleep. He had a dream-feed at 11ish then only woke once in the night for the first few nights, then not at all. As soon as we got his night-time sleep sorted we did the same with his day naps, and all it took for this was one nap with 15 minutes or so of grizzling (not crying). Now he goes in his cot wide awake and happy, and gets himself off to sleep no problem. He's done this ever since 7 months.