Another question re GF split feed

Hi Waterbaby Congrats on your progress!! Quick update on my DD - we spent three days in hospital this week as her doctor wanted to observe her reflux issues which as I have mentioned before, have been really causing my LO a lot of pain and sleeplessness. Following a change in the dosage of medication and moving to the comfort line of Aptimil, DD has improved significantly and is now happily falling asleep after a feed rather than going berserk with pain. Like your DD, mine sleeps for longer spells and I understand this to be primarily due to her reflux. I therefore let her have her meal at the scheduled time, let her nap for a few minutes after the meal to help with digestion (although she doesn't always need to sleep) and then slowly wake her to have play time with her. However, I don't force DD to stay awake for the hours that GF suggests as she gets irritable and then sleeps less due to over-exhaustion. I do however follow GF's suggested wake-up times to feed DD as to me, it's important DD receives regular feeds. I've been following the sleep schedule since day 1 and even if we have a day where it's difficult for me to manage the schedule, DD pretty much loosely follows it herself. Today I split the feed as usual with 70ml at 5pm and 60ml at 6.15pm. In between, DD was quite alert, played a bit but screamed as usual when it came to massage (I've given up on bathing ... well, avoiding it for as long as I can LOL and as Kiwi points out, newborns don't need to be bathed frequently). So in my case, having DD's reflux issues attended to has greatly helped in managing her feeds. I haven't yet found that the extra day time sleep impacts on her night sleep. She takes one feed at anywhere between 2am and 4am and usually lasts until 6.30am. She does wake during the night and this is usually because she is searching for her dummy (bad habit I know but dummies help reflux babies). Interestingly last night I actually had to wake her at 3.30am for her night feed. I sat in bed for about 10 mins wondering whether or not I should wake her but decided to wake her as I'd rather have a dream feed session than a crying hungry baby waiting for mumma to prepare her bottle! She only took 60ml ... hopefully a sign that slowly but surely GF's feeding schedule will help us drop this feed altogether - hopefully!

I am sooo glad that it is getting better! WHew! It gets so stressful when you just aren't sure what is going on or why what was working isn't now! Just keep remembering everything is a stage and like Gina says...everyday is a new day at 7! ( I loved that reassuring feeling that no matter what I did yesterday or how badly it went...today we started all over fresh!) Have a great weekend!

You shouldn't give GF so much credit though, your experience with your baby is down to the baby not the book (although if/when you have a 2nd and do [u'>exactly[/u'> the same with [u'>exactly [/u'>the same results.. I'll eat my words!!) eta: happily! edited by pentel on 15/08/2011 Gimme your number, I'll put you on speed dial and be sure to let you know! ;)

HI Waterbaby...how are things going now...are you still struggling with the split feed? I really didn't have any problems with the split feed (that I truly remember...but there could have been some days she didn't eat well at the first half) Sorry I can't be more help with that! Our DD was an exclusively BF baby until she was 13 months...I never once gave her formula and only a couple of times did she have a bottle of expressed milk in the evening b/c I wasn't there to feed her or it was a top up during a growth spurt. I didn't follow the expressing suggestions at the beginning (to lazy) and kicked myself later when she had a growth spurt at 6 weeks and I was up every 2 hours for 2 days...but like I said before it was a stage and it passed (though I was extremely stressed at the time!!! LOL!). :) I also was thinking about her naps and I think around 4-5 months we got a little out of wack for a while...she would sleep well in the am, then only for 1 hour after lunch and then I would try to "make up" the rest before 5....and at this stage it was just trying to get the right amount of "day" sleep in and not too much before 5 and work on getting her to stretch her 1 hour nap closer to 2 hours....and again it eventually sorted itself out. Like you said in your first post...you are loosely following GF...and I would say I did the same...My big priorities were getting the feeds as close to the suggested times as possible, and following the suggested amount of day sleep (if it fell right when it was suppose to or not) and get her in bed by 7. By 6 months it got alot easier in EVERY aspect. One other thing is she didn't sleep through the night (7-7) until she was 6.5 months...2 weeks after we started solids. We tried the 10/11 feed in the evening but she always woke at 1 or 2 -if she was fed then or not at 10/11 so I did "on demand" at night. I always went to bed early so getting up at 10 or 11 to feed and then again at 1 or 2 just didn't make sense to me..I was getting up twice then...so we just cut out the 10-11 feed. GF warned that she might be an early riser then...b/c this feed just keeps moving closer to 7...but she was pretty good. If she woke at 5 I would do the suggested split feed and put her back to bed as if it was the middle of the night and wake her at 7 like normal to finish the feed. She didn't do this for long either....:) She was also a pretty fast feeder so I would be up for 1/2 hour and we would all be back to sleep quickly so I didn't mind getting up once a night. I also have to say I am soooooooo thankful that GF does a baby and toddler book b/c I am a little anxious on how I am going to manage an 18 month old and NB!!!! At least this way I will have some guidance and on those very tired days where logic seems to have left me...I have SOMETHING to turn to for some direction! ;D I hope today has been a good day for you and your feed tonight goes well! :)

thankyou shellly for saying that my comment (and therefore my opinion) is ridiculous, I've listened to enough Mums wailing that their baby won't follow GF or Tizzie Hall, I've read enough posts on here that "so and so's" method isn't working to realise that it causes unnecessary stress (IMO) for [i'>some[/i'> mothers to try and brand their baby and get them following a prescribed routine. In these instances the only people who win are the authors and the self proclaimed "experts" You shouldn't give GF so much credit though, your experience with your baby is down to the baby not the book (although if/when you have a 2nd and do [u'>exactly[/u'> the same with [u'>exactly [/u'>the same results.. I'll eat my words!!) eta: happily! <em>edited by pentel on 15/08/2011</em>

Always love your posts, kiwispiers ;) You're so right. I honestly don't know how a BF mum would follow it and also reflux babies. Yep, being FF is far easier to follow this routine. But in saying that, I would have loved to have been able to breast feed. Exactly, if a mum wants to follow GF and it doesn't work then they absolutely have not failed. Each mum does the very best for their bub and finds the best fit. Thats where my reply to Pentel came in. I know her post wasn't aimed at me personally, but its her way of getting her point across.... like her way is the only way, the right way. Its not the only way. Just comments like 'I don't think babies read these books y'know' are just... well, ridiculous IMO. Anyway, I just wanted to use her post as a platform to get my point across. I absolutely don't need to defend myself, but I do thinks its necessary to give the other side some support. Those mums of us who do follow books and different routines. Again, at the end of the day we are all doing the very best for our little ones. No mum can make another mum feel bad for that.

I don' think you need to defend yourself Shelly, (and I doubt Pentel aimed her comment at you anyway) you were quite clear in your earlier that not all babies would fit this routine. I read GF's CLB among other books (Baby whisperer, HSHHC, no cry sleep solution etc) when I was pregnant and it is for the most part a perfectly sensible book and on its own not deserving of such a backlash. I think the problem comes when we see mums who it clearly doesn't work for, getting really upset (even depressed) that there is something "wrong" with their baby because they deviate from what the book describes and putting their baby through a lot of trauma in an effort to force them to fit. If something works, great, if it doesn't , you haven't "failed", move on. Also your baby was FF so this doesn't apply to you, but my biggest warning re; GF is that it is risky to follow her suggested feeding routine (and any other) if you are breastfeeding, and WHO and AAP say the same as for many mums it can effect your supply and result in a malnourished baby. I have seen a lot of GF (and other similar books) mums only manage to EBF for a few months of that, and still not really appreciate why they couldn't make it work. Likewise when babies have reflux issues, you need to question the scheduled feeds (among other things), even FF babies can be demand fed if a mother chooses to. I think so long as you are sensible about it, (apart from GF clearly not really knowing much about breastfeeding) the book is no doubt an excellent resource, much like any other baby book.

Forgot to add... don't try and understand it. Just try and accept we're all different and do different things.

I really don't understand following a routine from a book! why don't you follow your baby's lead and feed when hungry, put to sleep when tired etc?? I don't think babies read these books y'know! watch the baby not the clock. I totally see where you're coming from. But you need to understand that while all babies are different, so are all mums! What is foreign to you might be very normal to another mum. I was a new mum who had NO experience with babies! I had never changed a nappy before, hardly cuddled many babies as I was always so nervous with them. A few friends of mine followed GF successfully. I read the book while pregnant, as did my DH, and we both agreed with wanted to try the GF routine. There were a few things I did not agree with and did not do. But when it came to feeding/sleeping/times I followed them religiously. For me, it was a great guide of how and what to do. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dumb, so I did learn very quickly to follow my baby's lead and watch her, as well as the clock. What we were learning from DD and how we were parenting her was something myself and my DH spoke about all the time, day by day, week by week. After all DD is our first priority and we would NEVER do anything to harm her well being. The result for us..... a baby who has NEVER had to be rocked/pated/shushed to sleep, a baby who has NEVER cried when put to bed (EVER!!!), a baby who when I wake her (SHOCK HORROR!!!) still always wakes with the biggest smile on her face, and generally a baby who hardly cries (only when in genuine discomfort etc) and his a very contented little baby. As is a lot of other babies, I'm sure, who are not GF babies. What I am trying to say here is that babies who have successfully followed GF routine are not hard done by, are not loved any less and are not robots. I will stand up and without a shadow of doubt praise GF for helping me to be the best parent for my baby that I can be. The ONLY sleep issues we've had ever have been recently due to teething, dummy related issue (although fixed now), and when she is sick. I can honestly say that I've never had general sleep issues other friend's have sadly had to endure, and for that I know I am extremely lucky and very thankful. Everyone speaks of this 4 month sleep regression... I can honestly say my DD never went through that. To be honest I had never even heard of it till she was close to 6 months, when I read about it on here. Now, all I've said above can and does apply to babies who are not GF babies, and as I said below, all babies are very different, so a book is definitely not a 'one size fits all'. I will also say it again... Maybe I was just extremely lucky with my DD and her sleep/routine, but I do believe had I not followed the book I would no doubt found my way but I also have no doubt that it would have taken me/my baby months to get the sleeping 'right' and a long time to get the routine 'right'. So I am and always will be proud of the way I followed the GF routine. You may not like my way, but I am damn proud of myself! The result is now I am a confident mum with a very contented little 10 month old who, as my friends will agree, is soooooo loved and she is our world. Everything we do now is for her and she is always our number 1 priority! Sorry for the loooong post, but I used to be quiet about how I followed GF as I find most mums don't agree, but I am so over that as we are ALL different and no matter what style of parenting us mums choose we are ALL doing the very best for our babies.... and you cannot beat that!

I think that sleeping routines are not a bad idea in general, but you can't follow them blindly without evaluating how they are working for your own baby. I have always kept one eye on the clock and the other on my child so to speak. With a newborn, if they are tired they need to be given the chance to sleep, even if the book says otherwise. Only really after 4 months can you start to push them slightly to establish a more regular pattern, and even then, be led by your child in establishing that pattern. You can use GF as a rough guideline to what the average baby might be like and work from there. I followed a similar to GF routine with my DS at the start, but I stopped the scheduled feeding once I realised there was no way my baby could remain exclusively breast-fed under such a regime. He does have scheduled naps and a bedtime, but is demand fed. (and still breast-fed at one year of age). His reflux disappeared almost immediately after stopping the scheduled feeds, something to consider for GF mums with reflux issues, with all due respect Miss Ford might know the average amount of calories a baby might need, but she does not know the size of your baby's tummy, smaller more frequent feeds are generally medically recommended if a large feed (breast or bottle) is causing your baby pain. Despite not being a GF mum, I also frequently get the same comments as Zavitz "wow he doesn't stop smiling" "I've never seen him cry", "he's an amazing eater" "he's never sick" etc, he is a happy wee boy by nature I think, but for him being well fed and well rested, means not blindly following a book. As Shelly says, different babies have different needs, so use a book as a starting point, but not as a bible. The reason you only see successful GF mum's is because the rest quietly throw the book away and move on when it doesn't work.

HI. I hope that things are getting better! I used GF for my first and am planning to do so for my second (due to arrive any day now)! First thing...hang in there!!!!!...EVERYTHING is a stage...and this too will pass...sometimes with you understanding how to correct it and sometimes not! A good friend of ours said to us in the first few months of having our first...the ONLY consistent thing about infants is that they are CONSTANTLY changing...and it is sooo true. Just hope this difficult stage moves on quickly and you get an easier stage after! :) I would keep going with the routine...EVERYONE who has ever met our little girl has said she is AMAZINGLY content, confident and such a joy. She is only 18 months and is really a sweet little girl and I always praise GF and the fact that DD gets the right amount of sleep and food and the right times to always keep her happy. She also hardly ever cried...and when she did you knew it was b/c of teeth or something else was wrong...not that she was tired or hungry. I know you said you don't believe in waking babies up...and they should do it naturally...but I would start trying to wake your DD up "naturally" around the specific times...ESPECIALLY the late afternoon one. Opening curtains/turning on lights, removing clothes/blankets, softly talking to them can wake them up slowly. My DD never had a problem being woken up...but I always did it slowly and it is very good as they get older. Your night sleep and your long afternoon nap sleep will be worth GOLD to you later if you can get them into the routine. :) I hope this helps and that you are onto a new stage soon! Hang in there!

I really don't understand following a routine from a book! why don't you follow your baby's lead and feed when hungry, put to sleep when tired etc?? I don't think babies read these books y'know! watch the baby not the clock.

M you don't HAVE to bath daily anyway (even once a week is fine) and since the only reason for including it in a routine is its meant to be relaxing, just skip that part and do it another time, perhaps when your baby is less tired. Meanwhile try bathing her with a wet facecloth laid over her chest, it seems to reassure some babies. Keep the room very warm. I used to bath DS in the mornings on the balcony as a newborn last August, daylight helps set their body clocks and is good vit D absorption too.

I don't know how other mums and babies manage to adhere to GF's routines??!! A friend whose just had her third baby follows GF to the last detail and her babies have all been compliant - GRRRR. Hi, I have successfully followed GF routine since first day home from hospital. I must say that I was lucky that my bubba never suffered from reflux and she only suffered from colic briefly from age 2 - 8 weeks and for some reason I was just lucky that the colic never hurt her bedtime of 7pm. I cannot give you guys advice re the split feeds as firstly, I cannot remember (my DD is now 10mnths) and secondly, my DD was fully formula fed as sadly I could not breast feed. All I can say is hang in there! I just wanted to post to let you know that her routines can be successful. But having friends who have also successfully followed GF and also friends who unsuccessfully followed GF, I truly believe it depends on your baby, every baby is different. Hope you both get through this and find solutions.

Hi waterbaby Today was a bit of a nightmare as DD had little sleep again today. Normally she is a sleepy baby too and naps for about six hours during the day but something was bothering her and the only time she had a decent sleep was between 8.30am and 10.15am. The rest of the day was spent with me consoling her as she cried within 10 minutes of being put down. Because she barely cat-napped in the afternoon, I decided to feed her at 5pm and planned a top up at 6pm (if she managed to stay awake). However, she only took 40ml at 5pm and began crying whilst feeding. After a diaper change, top and tail and some cuddling time, she took another 40ml at 6pm and eventually fell asleep at about 7.15pm. So far she has woken only once, at 9pm, which is good considering how bad her sleeping has been today. I cuddled her for about 5 mins and she allowed me to put her down in her cot again. I can see the poor thing is exhausted but she just refuses to transition into a deep sleep. Bath times are another problem - she hates it. She has a bit of a cry in the bath but then wails uncontrollably until she is barely breathing when we are trying to dry, moisturise and dress her. Because she gets so agitated, I am considering moving bath time to earlier in the day as otherwise we can sometimes spend an hour or two soothing and settling her to sleep. This might also explain why she is reluctant to take the 6.15pm feed? I don't know how other mums and babies manage to adhere to GF's routines??!! A friend whose just had her third baby follows GF to the last detail and her babies have all been compliant - GRRRR.

waterbaby - my 7 week old dd is identical. i tried replacing the split feed last week and fed her at 5.30ish. it worked, she took 90ml initially and then another 60ml after a short break. she slept through to 10pm and then again until 3am. never through the night though - how did you manage that???!!! mine is also incredibly distressed when feeding but this is a reflux issue. in the past week her intake has been quite variable and she has been sleeping variably through the night too : (