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HELP! Urgent 'someone who did a runner'-related question.

30

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 13:57

A friend who owned a business in Dubai has many loans and has done a runner to the UK. The banks keep calling his family and friends in the UK to try and locate him but they are not giving out any details. He is a very honest person but unfortunately due to the downturn his business went bankrupt and the apartments he was building have been possessed by the bank.

The issue is that he is planning to sell his property in the UK and settle his loan with one bank but it will not make him debt free cos there are loans with other banks. The family is young. They have been banned from all Middle East coutries however the wife is quite stressed not knowing what to do.

Will they arrest him in the UK through interpol? Is it worth settling just a portion of his loan cos he is unable to pay all the banks. The family will end up renting a place in the UK.

Please advise.

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1759

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 07 August 2011 - 14:14

You might want to tell him too that if he knows where the other partners can be found, he may be able to use this information in his negotiations (if it gets to that) with the collector - why should he be the only one trying to do the "right thing" in settling these debts? Sounds mean I know, but it's business, not personal.

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Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 07 August 2011 - 10:54

Many thanks for all your replies. It’s an interesting discussion. Well I should have been clearer. The husband and his business are bankrupt. The house is owned by his wife. He has not declared bankruptcy yet and it trying to settle the banks and be debt free. I am trying to help the family out with any information available and not judge them. The suggestions provided here were very helpful. They were not aware of many things and when I called them yesterday, they were very thankful to all the ladies on EW.

654

Posts

EW GURU

Latest post on 07 August 2011 - 10:36

A UAE bank can sell a "debt" to an UK agency, but the UK agency still does not have the force of UK law behind it when it tries to collect the debt. International debts are not transferrable like that unless there's an agreement between the countries. There's no such agreement between the UK and the UAE. The most the UK collection agency an do is to intimidate the debtor through guilt and fear. When the Dubai real estate bubble burst, it left local developers seriously in hock to major UK banks. Could these banks foreclose on the Dubai properties and seize them? No. Could the banks chase after the debt? No. They had to write them off. What works one way also works the other way. Actually, they do - because now the debt is now owed to that entity. They can take steps to recover the money through the legal system. He still legally owes it, he now owes it to the UK entity. Just because the debt was incurred abroad is not necessarily a barrier to them recovering the money. It can be done, it is expensive for the collector, but if the money is significant and they see a real chance of recovering at least some of the money to make it worth their while, they can do so. edited by marycatherine on 06/08/2011 edited by marycatherine on 06/08/2011

3901

Posts

EW MASTER

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 23:44

If he owns the house it can be sold to go towards paying off his debts.... Any surplus income over £20 will be taken for a payment order which has to be paid to the Official Receiver for 3 years.

1759

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 23:37

In the first post, it was the business that was bankrupt, then the OP says "he is bankrupt". Which is it?

Anonymous (not verified)

0

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 23:22

He is bankrupt and has no money or assets other than the house. His wife runs a business which is in her name. Is it poss to be bankrupt but to still own a home? Surely if you're made bankrupt but own a house you'd have to sell it first to pay off debts??? or am I not understanding bankrupcy. Seems a bit jammy if you can write off your debts but keep your house (and anyway most people would have a mortgage which would be part of their debt wouldn't they) Am I being blonde?? tjis all applies to uk of course

1759

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 22:39

He may still not be safe if the asset is transferred to the spouse or a "cheap" sale, the collector can then file a claim that he is hiding assets in order to avoid a lawful debt. He definitely needs legal advice. He should have gotten good financial advice before entering into the whole mess.

374

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 22:19

It dosen't matter what debt it is, if in debt and being chased needs to seek advice from Lawyers or Citizens advice etc. The beauty of the west is the ability to claim bankrupt, all over no more chasing, no more debts. Seek advice about transferring house into spouses name or childrens name via cheap sale. Not sure how much sympathy to be had with someone who loaned themselves up to the eyeballs in the development game in the UAE. <em>edited by QF2011 on 06/08/2011</em>

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Posts

EW GURU

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 22:11

As I mentioned before, are there any private investors that bought the apartments and have so lost money, could they club together and file a suit in the UK against him?

1759

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 21:58

Actually, they do - because now the debt is now owed to that entity. They can take steps to recover the money through the legal system. He still legally owes it, he now owes it to the UK entity. Just because the debt was incurred abroad is not necessarily a barrier to them recovering the money. It can be done, it is expensive for the collector, but if the money is significant and they see a real chance of recovering at least some of the money to make it worth their while, they can do so. edited by marycatherine on 06/08/2011 <em>edited by marycatherine on 06/08/2011</em>

edna.welthorpe36638

516

Posts

EW GURU

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 21:46

if he owes significant money, he may be in real legal trouble Only if Interpol takes an interest, surely? As has been pointed out, even if UAE banks sell debts on to UK-based collection agencies, those agencies have no backing from the British legal system because the debts were not incurred in the UK.

1759

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 21:39

The OP mentioned this man has business partners (you can't get at assets in the wife's name) and that's who I was referencing. However, OP also mentioned HE has a house - they can go after that if it's in his name. He can't be put in jail but assets in his name can be seized and sold, his salary garnished etc. <em>edited by marycatherine on 06/08/2011</em>

1340

Posts

EW OLDHAND

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 19:30

Selling delinquent debts to banks/collection agencies is not restricted to the UK - it can be done anywhere the UAE bank can find a buyer for the debt. So the partners aren't off the hook either if the bank(s) can track them down. why would the partner be involved if the debt is in his name? Because theyre married A spouse would only be involved insofar as liens on any joint property. But I think in this case the OP is referring to BUSINESS partners, no? And from what I've read, they've flown the coop to a country other than UK. To the OP........the banks in UAE can sell on the debt, but not the powers to recover they have there........in the UK the law does recognise that you cannot get blood from a stone. There has been no jailing for debt for over a century.........and if debt collectors use threatening measures, they are breaking the law. Your friend should speak to the Citizen's Advice Bureau.

127

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 18:40

Selling delinquent debts to banks/collection agencies is not restricted to the UK - it can be done anywhere the UAE bank can find a buyer for the debt. So the partners aren't off the hook either if the bank(s) can track them down. why would the partner be involved if the debt is in his name? Because theyre married

Princess_I45169

1953

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 18:39

Selling delinquent debts to banks/collection agencies is not restricted to the UK - it can be done anywhere the UAE bank can find a buyer for the debt. So the partners aren't off the hook either if the bank(s) can track them down. why would the partner be involved if the debt is in his name?

1759

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 18:36

Selling delinquent debts to banks/collection agencies is not restricted to the UK - it can be done anywhere the UAE bank can find a buyer for the debt. So the partners aren't off the hook either if the bank(s) can track them down.

30

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 17:51

Thank you all for your kind replies. Very englightening. The business was run by 3 partners who have also fled the country but are not from the UK. He is bankrupt and has no money or assets other than the house. His wife runs a business which is in her name.

1759

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 17:09

If the UAE bank sells it's delinquent loan to a UK collection agency or even to a UK bank, the agency/bank can go after him. It's called factoring and done all the time internationally for accounts receivables etc. It may be an empty threat for the smaller delinquents, but if he owes significant money, he may be in real legal trouble. He has UK assets now they can attach if they follow the legal channels and if he doesn't declare bankruptcy or other "legal protection" he may find future wages being garnished and future assets seized (probably not likely, but a possibility). Like was suggested before, he needs to consult a lawyer to look at his options. edited by marycatherine on 06/08/2011 <em>edited by marycatherine on 06/08/2011</em>

858

Posts

EW GURU

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 15:54

Just a thought and perhaps something else to consider, when you say he was building apartments... had he already sold any of them? i.e. are there private investors / members of the public type people who have lost their money / deposits? If so, it may be that they could also try and get their money back too and chase him privately, especially if they are also Brits...

1617

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 15:52

'He is a very honest person...' Er ask that to the banks here to whom he owes money that here appears to be trying to avaoid paying off; they might might beg to differ.

374

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 15:39

You can only collect debt if there is money, UK tax accountant/lawyer needs to be sought to negotiate the debt with the banks and advise best way forward for debtor. It may be in his interest to declare bankrupt.

127

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 15:35

UAE lenders have begun hiring British debt collectors to chase defaulters who have fled back to the UK without settling their debts, according to the head of a UK-based charity that advised people who have fallen into legal trouble in the emirate. “I have spoken to people who have said they are being chased by debt collectors,” Radha Stirling, founder of the London-based charity Detained in Dubai, told Arabian Business. However, she said that the UK debt collectors “are not following through on their threats” as they do not have any power to force the repayment of loans owed to Dubai lenders. “I think it is a scare tactic and I think the Brits are on to it and pretty much ignore them anyway,” she said. As there are so many debt collection agencies in the UK, it is very easy to employ one and their terms are quite good,” she added. However, she believed it was only those that owed a considerable amount of money that were being chased in the UK as “as it wouldn’t be worth chasing the smaller debts.” http://www.arabianbusiness.com/uae-lenders-hire-uk-debt-collectors--chase-defaulters-305866.html

Princess_I45169

1953

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 14:27

I think that if his debts are that large there is a real possibility that he will be chased.

1759

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 14:20

Your friend is right to be nervous. If the bank(s) sell his debt to a UK based collection agency he may be faced with real legal problems in the UK. They can't arrest him (unless fraud of some sort is involved and this doesn't seem to be the case), but they can go after his assets. As N8 said, he needs good legal advice. http://www.federalmanagement.co.uk/news/tag/dubai/

619

Posts

EW GURU

Latest post on 06 August 2011 - 14:05

I don't really think any of us here could answer this question properly. They should probably consult a lawyer in the UK and ask about the best course of action. It's a really tricky situation and hopefully the right outcome will follow. <em>edited by natalie8 on 06/08/2011</em>

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