To all Cecile's clients.... just wanted to hear your experiences with the sleep training

lemondrops replied : jumeirajaneindubai wrote: And what ? dis you come to my home to see if this is true or not ? Wasn't that your recommendation? To hand over the baby to the maid, if he wasn't sleeping through the night? Didn't you say it worked for you? Lemondrops it is obvious that this is a joke again ! <em>edited by salome on 04/07/2011</em>

Yes because I wanted to show how nonsense is this sleep training thing . Now that I now which advice she is giving to Bf mother, i am horrified.

And what ? dis you come to my home to see if this is true or not ? Wasn't that your recommendation? To hand over the baby to the maid, if he wasn't sleeping through the night? Didn't you say it worked for you? Also get your facts straight here: I never went to Cecile for sleep training advice, and I didn't hand over my LO to the maid either. I dealt with it myself. <em>edited by lemondrops on 04/07/2011</em>

That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life. ! You should have told her that, surely, she received received too much breastmilk when she was a baby, that' s why She is obese ! lol ( joke) What a stupid joke! Pathetic actually. I agree. I was quite disgusted actually. To D.babe and GreenQueen, did Cecile cite any of the medical literature that she based her advice on? Just curious... You should be disgusted by her behavior and the wrong advice she is giving... It was just to show how stupid is her advice ! Regardless whether or not you agree with her opinion, ridiculing someone because of their appearance or weight is disgusting. JMO. Her opinion is against ALL Current MEDICAL RECOMMANDATIONS. We are not living in the '70 anymore. her opinion is stupid, and replying by this at least, she will think twice before stating such enormity. Says the woman who touts her baby to the maid! And what ? dis you come to my home to see if this is true or not ?

That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life. ! You should have told her that, surely, she received received too much breastmilk when she was a baby, that' s why She is obese ! lol ( joke) What a stupid joke! Pathetic actually. I agree. I was quite disgusted actually. To D.babe and GreenQueen, did Cecile cite any of the medical literature that she based her advice on? Just curious... You should be disgusted by her behavior and the wrong advice she is giving... It was just to show how stupid is her advice ! Well all you did was show how stupid you are! You are the most stupid by following her advice, and paying her for this . you dont want to see the truth because it hurts. Yep, you really do speak sh!t!!! I've never seen the woman for anything and am yet to follow any of her advice! Get your facts straight, TROLL.

That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life. ! You should have told her that, surely, she received received too much breastmilk when she was a baby, that' s why She is obese ! lol ( joke) What a stupid joke! Pathetic actually. I agree. I was quite disgusted actually. To D.babe and GreenQueen, did Cecile cite any of the medical literature that she based her advice on? Just curious... You should be disgusted by her behavior and the wrong advice she is giving... It was just to show how stupid is her advice ! Well all you did was show how stupid you are! You are the most stupid by following her advice, and paying her for this . you dont want to see the truth because it hurts.

That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life. ! You should have told her that, surely, she received received too much breastmilk when she was a baby, that' s why She is obese ! lol ( joke) What a stupid joke! Pathetic actually. I agree. I was quite disgusted actually. To D.babe and GreenQueen, did Cecile cite any of the medical literature that she based her advice on? Just curious... You should be disgusted by her behavior and the wrong advice she is giving... It was just to show how stupid is her advice ! Regardless whether or not you agree with her opinion, ridiculing someone because of their appearance or weight is disgusting. JMO. Her opinion is against ALL Current MEDICAL RECOMMANDATIONS. We are not living in the '70 anymore. her opinion is stupid, and replying by this at least, she will think twice before stating such enormity. Says the woman who touts her baby to the maid!

That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life. ! You should have told her that, surely, she received received too much breastmilk when she was a baby, that' s why She is obese ! lol ( joke) What a stupid joke! Pathetic actually. I agree. I was quite disgusted actually. To D.babe and GreenQueen, did Cecile cite any of the medical literature that she based her advice on? Just curious... You should be disgusted by her behavior and the wrong advice she is giving... It was just to show how stupid is her advice ! Regardless whether or not you agree with her opinion, ridiculing someone because of their appearance or weight is disgusting. JMO. Her opinion is against ALL Current MEDICAL RECOMMANDATIONS. We are not living in the '70 anymore. her opinion is stupid, and replying by this at least, she will think twice before stating such enormity.

That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life. ! You should have told her that, surely, she received received too much breastmilk when she was a baby, that' s why She is obese ! lol ( joke) What a stupid joke! Pathetic actually. I agree. I was quite disgusted actually. To D.babe and GreenQueen, did Cecile cite any of the medical literature that she based her advice on? Just curious... You should be disgusted by her behavior and the wrong advice she is giving... It was just to show how stupid is her advice ! Well all you did was show how stupid you are!

That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life. ! You should have told her that, surely, she received received too much breastmilk when she was a baby, that' s why She is obese ! lol ( joke) What a stupid joke! Pathetic actually. I agree. I was quite disgusted actually. To D.babe and GreenQueen, did Cecile cite any of the medical literature that she based her advice on? Just curious... You should be disgusted by her behavior and the wrong advice she is giving... It was just to show how stupid is her advice ! Regardless whether or not you agree with her opinion, ridiculing someone because of their appearance or weight is disgusting. JMO.

That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life. ! You should have told her that, surely, she received received too much breastmilk when she was a baby, that' s why She is obese ! lol ( joke) What a stupid joke! Pathetic actually. I agree. I was quite disgusted actually. To D.babe and GreenQueen, did Cecile cite any of the medical literature that she based her advice on? Just curious... You should be disgusted by her behavior and the wrong advice she is giving... It was just to show how stupid is her advice !

That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life. ! You should have told her that, surely, she received received too much breastmilk when she was a baby, that' s why She is obese ! lol ( joke) What a stupid joke! Pathetic actually. I agree. I was quite disgusted actually. To D.babe and GreenQueen, did Cecile cite any of the medical literature that she based her advice on? Just curious...

That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life. ! You should have told her that, surely, she received received too much breastmilk when she was a baby, that' s why She is obese ! lol ( joke) What a stupid joke! Pathetic actually.

That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life. ! You should have told her that, surely, she received received too much breastmilk when she was a baby, that' s why She is obese ! lol ( joke)

When I said that I was under the impression that for the first year, bm is supposed to be a baby's primary source of nutrition, she clearly stated that many books/publications misquote and thereby mislead mothers into believing this and that by now DD should be getting most of her nutrition from solids and NOT bm. When I said that DD's weight charts look good and she is thriving and healthy, she specifically said that while her weight gain may be good, we have to be sure she is getting the weight from the right sources (i.e. solids) at this point. That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life./quote'> edited by kiwispiers on 04/07/2011 [color=#000000'>Yikes!, what terrible advice, completely medically unfounded, and yes, potentially dangerous. I am glad you have chosen to ignore it. I wonder where on earth she has taken this viewpoint from, breastmilk is high in natural simple carbohydrates (sugar) which a 7 month old can digest and gain energy from rather than a complex carbohydrate (starch) which they are only beginning to make enzymes for (and which if they can digest it ultimately gets converted to sugar anyway) The other major component of breastmilk is fat and it is of course full of fat soluble vitamins/fatty acids etc etc. Why it would be "better" to get protein, fat and carbs from other sources I can not imagine, if you see her again perhaps you should question further/ask for some research to support her view. I don't like to criticize someone I have never met and who is by all accounts very well meaning/caring and may have good knowledge on methods to make babies sleep longer, but I am now, also shocked.[/color'> edited by kiwispiers on 04/07/2011 ditto- and this was the only reason i posted on what was the most recent thread on ceclie- just to inform mothers that while her sleep info may be useful if they are desperate for rest, her feeding info flies in the face of what is medically and scientifically accepted in 2011 as the mechanics of sucessfully feeding your baby. My DS1 is going to be 3 years old on wed and b/f for the longest time- he was really averse to most solid food - unlike his brother- and a less obese and more active child would be difficult to find. Its only anecdotal in my case, but all the research on bm shows that it is meant to be fed to babies frequently because of its composition and children fed mainly BM, by age 4 , have differnt fatty compostions which protect them from obesity and diabetes later in life.

When I said that I was under the impression that for the first year, bm is supposed to be a baby's primary source of nutrition, she clearly stated that many books/publications misquote and thereby mislead mothers into believing this and that by now DD should be getting most of her nutrition from solids and NOT bm. When I said that DD's weight charts look good and she is thriving and healthy, she specifically said that while her weight gain may be good, we have to be sure she is getting the weight from the right sources (i.e. solids) at this point. That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life./quote'> edited by kiwispiers on 04/07/2011 [color=#000000'>Yikes!, what terrible advice, completely medically unfounded, and yes, potentially dangerous. I am glad you have chosen to ignore it. I wonder where on earth she has taken this viewpoint from, breastmilk is high in natural simple carbohydrates (sugar) which a 7 month old can digest and gain energy from rather than a complex carbohydrate (starch) which they are only beginning to make enzymes for (and which if they can digest it ultimately gets converted to sugar anyway) The other major component of breastmilk is fat and it is of course full of fat soluble vitamins/fatty acids etc etc. Why it would be "better" to get protein, fat and carbs from other sources I can not imagine, if you see her again perhaps you should question further/ask for some research to support her view. I don't like to criticize someone I have never met and who is by all accounts very well meaning/caring and may have good knowledge on methods to make babies sleep longer, but I am now, also shocked.[/color'> <em>edited by kiwispiers on 04/07/2011</em>

Designbabe replied : My point with relation to the advice given was more to do with the disruption it would cause to a sucessful B/F relationship that the mother had with her baby and the fact that she was very clear that her intention was to feed her baby BM for atleasta year and longer if required. This advice if taken would result in immidiate failure of the b/f as you cannot maintain milk supply if you barely feed in the day, just mostly solids and then cut all night feed excpet the 11 p.m feed. You cannot produce milk if you do not empty your breasts regularly. Thanks Designbabe for all your messages and usefull comments .

salome wrote: Green-ish replied : The thing is, as we have discussed here before salome, that you don't tend to ask a "simple question". You load it with judgement and wait until somone says something that allows you to jump on them with further judgement. Green-ish are you paranoid ?! edited by salome on 04/07/2011 Paranoid about what exactly salome? I'm just sick of you only popping your head in when you have a judgement to pass. Well, in fairness, you're not judgemental every time, but boringly frequently. Thanks again for your nice comment Green-ish . Please feel free not to read any of my message. Sorry but this forum is open to everybody . <em>edited by salome on 04/07/2011</em>

Wow just came back on to this thread and read all these comments. Just to add my experience, if you go back to my first post after OP posted, you will see that I was told by Cecile very clearly that while I may be shocked to hear this, she is going to tell me to cut down on my breastfeeding and to increase DD's solid intake. When I said that I was under the impression that for the first year, bm is supposed to be a baby's primary source of nutrition, she clearly stated that many books/publications misquote and thereby mislead mothers into believing this and that by now DD should be getting most of her nutrition from solids and NOT bm. When I said that DD's weight charts look good and she is thriving and healthy, she specifically said that while her weight gain may be good, we have to be sure she is getting the weight from the right sources (i.e. solids) at this point. That BM is high in sugar and yes she also stated that by giving her too much bm at this point I could be setting her up for obesity and diabetes later in life. Now just to clarify, I know that Cecile wanted me to cut out the night feeds immediately and would probably expect DD's daytime feeds to increase to compensate. But as I said before, i was not happy to do that as I felt it would decrease my supply and also DD is just not a good day time feeder as she is very distracted. I would also like to add that while I did not agree with Cecile's advice wrt breastfeeding, I believe her advice wrt sleep training was fair (IF that is the route parents want to go down of course) and as someone mentioned earlier, just because I may not agree with some of her advice also does not make her a bad person overall or even mean that all her advice is rubbish! She has clearly helped many people with sleep training and other issues and that cannot be dismissed! However, I do agree with some of the posters on here in that although I am not an experienced mother like some of you, I did not agree with her advice on bf and I hope that is not the advice being given to other new mothers here! Finally, going back to the original purpose of this thread, kcinthecity - I hope the sleep training is going well and you now have a well rested baby and mama!

DB tell your friend to hang in there, DS went through a phase where he took the majority of his BM at night, and would happily have eaten as much solids as possible by day but only sips of BM, by around 9 months he had settled down a bit and despite still snacking, takes a lot more daytime milk than he did. I found feeding him the second he woke, before even turning on the bedroom light and feeding him again just before I put him down for any naps was the best way to up his daytime milk intake as he is way to distractible to take anything more than a sip or 2 the rest of the time. She could invest in a breastfeeding necklace too, which is basically some safe beads or a string of toys that baby can fiddle with while on the boob as an incentive to stick around ;) <em>edited by kiwispiers on 04/07/2011</em>

That is fine Nutty, mine had only one night feed from around 10 weeks too (although now has 2), but some babies don't take enough BM by day, regardless of how many times the breast is offered and many mothers are fine with night feeding for other reasons too (ie comforting/soothing). Presumably since the mother had gone to cecile she was concerned about the number of night wakings and wanted tools to reduce them, I don't see a problem at all with trying to up the daytime BM intake by clusterfeeding as you have suggested (although not always possible) but upping the calories through solids at the expense of BM in a 7 month old is not good advice and it is not appropriate to suggest that nightfeeding is harmful to an infant. I was just about to post to nutty but you said it before I could.......I agree completely. It is very difficult sometimes to get a distractable 7-8 month old to take a good feed during the day as they are so amused and interested in the world and it is really impossible to force feed them BM. Hence I imagine th preference for solids to "fill them up". However, most solids are not absorbed and utilized optimally (or in the case of my DS1 barely at all - as quite a few of them came out pretty much the way they went in - even pieces of apple till he was almost 18 months - he digests fab now at almost 3) and BM is recommended as it is used fully by the baby for growth and development. There is a reason why current medical advice is current. The old advice to fill babies up so they remain fuller and sleep longer is not given anymore - nor is the inclination to feed tons of sugary cereal. My point with relation to the advice given was more to do with the disruption it would cause to a sucessful B/F relationship that the mother had with her baby and the fact that she was very clear that her intention was to feed her baby BM for atleasta year and longer if required. This advice if taken would result in immidiate failure of the b/f as you cannot maintain milk supply if you barely feed in the day, just mostly solids and then cut all night feed excpet the 11 p.m feed. You cannot produce milk if you do not empty your breasts regularly.

That is fine Nutty, mine had only one night feed from around 10 weeks too (although now has 2), but some babies don't take enough BM by day, regardless of how many times the breast is offered and many mothers are fine with night feeding for other reasons too (ie comforting/soothing). Presumably since the mother had gone to cecile she was concerned about the number of night wakings and wanted tools to reduce them, I don't see a problem at all with trying to up the daytime BM intake by clusterfeeding as you have suggested (although not always possible) but upping the calories through solids at the expense of BM in a 7 month old is not good advice and it is not appropriate to suggest that nightfeeding is harmful to an infant.

Green-ish replied : The thing is, as we have discussed here before salome, that you don't tend to ask a "simple question". You load it with judgement and wait until somone says something that allows you to jump on them with further judgement. Green-ish are you paranoid ?! edited by salome on 04/07/2011 Paranoid about what exactly salome? I'm just sick of you only popping your head in when you have a judgement to pass. Well, in fairness, you're not judgemental every time, but boringly frequently.

The way i read the comment where Cecile is supposed to have said on cut back the night feeding and encourage more during the day wasn't to deny the child calories he/she may need but rather to increase the daytime calorie consumption so that the night time top is not required and therefore does not keep waking up due to an empty stomach. I did this with my baby IE cluster fed in the afternoons and she slept through the night at 10weeks on BF (with a dreamfeed which we stopped at 6months as she no longer wanted it). Its the getting up several times a night i think is not neccesary.So to me this advice makes perfect sense as from my experience it works. <em>edited by nutty on 04/07/2011</em>

At 7months why is your friend still feeding during the night? Think Cecile is right on this one. I'm sorry but I have a problem with this comment, you are not doing something "wrong" by night feeding a 7 month old, I still BF my 11 month old once or once in the 12 hours he is in bed and feel it is perfectly reasonable to do so, and he is healthier for it because as has been pointed out below, at 7 months you should absolutely NOT be cutting back on breastfeeding to encourage consumption of solids, and breastmilk should be the primary source of nutrition in the first year, babies simply can not absorb all the nutrients they need from other foods. In my particular circumstance, I feel my baby does not nurse enough by day, and so even now would benefit from having breastmilk, rather than water if he wakes in the night. I think it is irresponsible to suggest that a mother would be harming her infant by doing so and I would hate to think that mothers are being given that advice as a means of persuasion.

Green-ish replied : The thing is, as we have discussed here before salome, that you don't tend to ask a "simple question". You load it with judgement and wait until somone says something that allows you to jump on them with further judgement. Green-ish are you paranoid ?! <em>edited by salome on 04/07/2011</em>

Goodness me. Cecile is like any business in that you will have people who are extremely happy with her and those who are not. I have some friends who have seen Cecile and they absolutely love her. She has done wonders for their sleep. In fixing their sleep the babies are so much happier and so are the mothers! People can have their strong opinions about Cecile but when someone just goes off attacking the woman at every chance then I think that is uncalled for. Yes, give your opinion but to just continuously attack the woman is just not right. And the fact that she IS successfully helping hundreds of mothers and babies, in my opinion, speaks volumes about her. I agree. It is obvious that opinion towards her is polarised, you love her fine. You hate well, fine too. But no need to bash the woman at every opportunity particularly when the thread doesn't even call for it. All the OP wanted was to hear from people who have used Cecile's sleep training advice and how successful/unsuccessful it was. As for me, I used Cecile over a period of 3 years for my two girls. Due to Ceci's advice I managed to exclusively BF my first for two years and exclusively pump for DD2 for 7 months and counting. I don't know what advice she's told D.Babe's friend, but with me Ceci was the biggest BF support for me. I do know she supports introducing solids by six months max, doesn't care how whether it's BLW or spoonfeedng, but she does believe that the 6 month to 18 month window is an important age to help babies acquire their feeding skills. This infamous CIO expert was the one who actually advised me against sleeptraining my DD1 at 2.5 years because she felt with all that was going on, it wasn't the right solution for us. DD1 still wakes up a lot at night and even co sleeps with us a few times a week. I know I sound like a broken record now, but what that woman did to our family was invaluable. She was probably the one who kept me from having a nervous breakdown when things were at their worst with DD2. She even insisted on visiting us every week for months until she was 100% certain that both myself and DD2 (who was premature and has a feeding aversion) was all right, even after our package with her expired. Free. She refused to charge me although she was forgoing meeting with paying clients because she was concerned about me and the baby. Now that is what is truly called a labour of love. I will only ever have good things to say about ceci lemondrops, this is the Cecile I met! There are bits and pieces about her methods that don't ring true for me, but surely that's true of just about any health professional we come across. With genuine apologies to designbabe for doubting her word (second hand as it is)...I maintain that IF this is an accurate portrayal of the advice Cecile gave a new Mum, then I am shocked/horrified because I simply cannot imagine her being so utterly wrong.

Are you always so aggressive when people want to discuss points, must be great to be your friend! actually i'm never ever agressive- just shocked this time- :) I'm shocked too db!! I have met Cecile a number of times and always believed her to be quite knowledgable and certainly to always have the best interests of mother and baby at heart. If this is the advice she gave your friend, then I too am shocked...horrified actually!

Green-ish replied : Ah salome...up to your usual 'tricks' I see. If you have something constructive and non-judgemental to say, please just come out and say it. Thanks for your comment....does this forum not allow a simple question ? I am sure BTW that you did your best for all your babies . Again, I haven't read any further yet... The thing is, as we have discussed here before salome, that you don't tend to ask a "simple question". You load it with judgement and wait until somone says something that allows you to jump on them with further judgement.

Dubaicat replied : He was only 7 or 8 months at the time . Does sleep training affect a successfull breastfeeding as the baby is left couple a hours without any feed ? Two of my babies slept through the night (12+ hours) from 10 and 12 weeks, both exclusively breastfed and both without anything in particular that I did. The other slept through the night from 17 weeks, four days after we instigated a version of 'sleep training'. If the baby goes to bed comfortable, well-fed, dry and relaxed, there is no need to feed them every couple of hours. From my understanding, milk is for hunger and thirst. I am 34 , and I still wake up several time a night to drink water, specially with the summer heat, and AC. I've just come back to this and not read any further...can see where it might be going though. Of course milk is for hunger and thirst. Talk about stating the bleeding obvious. Nobody has suggested otherwise. All I said is that there is no "NEED" to wake very couple of hours (all other factors taken into consideration.). My girls slept 12-14 hours from a very young age. That's just the way they were.