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Grand National today

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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:59
i guess we all have different ideas of what is rude but you win no arguments insulting your opponents' intelligence... Yes you are of course right.
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EW MASTER
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:59
Yes, but when you get behind the wheel of a car, the risk is your own. When you're riding you're asking the animal to perform to the best of its ability. Pushing those animals to the very brink is hardly sportsmanship IMHO. When you compete, you do not put a horse in a class above its capabilities. Pushing them to the very limit is just asking for trouble. 4 and a half miles is an excruciating distance for even the fittest of animals, then you want to put horrendously huge fences in their way. If you ask me, they need to lower the fences or reduce the distance. But I don't like your attitude that all country folk are hard liners, it's just not true.
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EW MASTER
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:57
i guess we all have different ideas of what is rude but you win no arguments insulting your opponents' intelligence...
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EW OLDHAND
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:55
SW, are you saying we should still let students smoke in class? God yes! You ride Ceese and you know the risks, should you not ride because you may fall off or the horse may break it's leg while you are riding it? And the horses, SW........they calculate the risks also? Don't we as humans have a certain duty of care here?
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:54
SW has spent all day defending this carnage without an ounce of respect for the two dead horses and critical jockey.. The only concern seems to be that the do-gooders will have sufficient influence as to bring about some much needed restrictions for future GNs. Personally I think it's a disgrace and something must be done to make it safer..Reducing the field and lowering the jumps will not make it "just another race" - it will always be the Grand National...but times are changing and the risk to life and limb no longer has any place in sport. On that basis lets put speed limiters on all F1 cars to 60 mph! I have every sympathy for the owners and everyone involved with those horses who died, it goes without saying. You are entitled to your opinon as everyone else is, don't make this personal to me, it just so happens that within this population of people and therefore posters i am more alone in my views, take this board to Lambourn or Newmarket and see what the response would be there. well actually, you have been behaving as though we are NOT entitled to other opinions !! It's only personal to you because you are the one who has been attacking anyone who has ventured to disagree with you... Well Sue that's maybe because there has only been me responding not another handful of posters like there normally is on a *controversial issue*, shall we go back to Maids and see how rude posters are on such topics?
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:53
SW, I now know who you are.... If only I could remember your name! Real name, Bahrain right?
1511
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:53
SW, are you saying we should still let students smoke in class? God yes! You ride Ceese and you know the risks, should you not ride because you may fall off or the horse may break it's leg while you are riding it?
1511
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:51
Resorting to belittling those of us who hold different views to your own doesn't help your argument. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but equating greater safety for horses and riders with the 'PC brigade' wanting to ruin it for the 'country folk' is just ridiculous. I'm about as far from PC as you can get. Yes, the media play up the deaths and injuries. It's not news otherwise, although it certainly doesn't help rational discussion. But the facts remain; two horses died, one jockey has been critically injured. The race faces the same criticism year after year. Is it really necessary? And my point still stands, life is about risk, driving down Emirates road poses a greater risk to life, shall we not drive on Emirates road. The points i have tried to make have not been taken up or understood, horses competing in sport have accidents and death is a real risk, this one event has been hyped by the media to IMHO an unreasonable level. I have not belittled but have asked genuine questions of those who have made statements, if anyone wants to join the band wagon of deeming that as rude so be it, i care not. This is so typical of the posters on EW, bandwagons away mentality, the poster who did ask very sound questions was in fact MB, who knows i have nothing personal against her at all but on this topic will disagree with her views and push her to justify her statements made. As for a jockey in critical condition, every time you get on a horse you risk death or injury, as a NH jockey or even flat you know the risks, it is of course sad and we hope he recovers with Gods speed but there was a similar incident this year here at Meydan, where was the fuss and sympathy then? <em>edited by Sticky Wicket on 10/04/2011</em>
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EW MASTER
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:49
SW has spent all day defending this carnage without an ounce of respect for the two dead horses and critical jockey.. The only concern seems to be that the do-gooders will have sufficient influence as to bring about some much needed restrictions for future GNs. Personally I think it's a disgrace and something must be done to make it safer..Reducing the field and lowering the jumps will not make it "just another race" - it will always be the Grand National...but times are changing and the risk to life and limb no longer has any place in sport. On that basis lets put speed limiters on all F1 cars to 60 mph! I have every sympathy for the owners and everyone involved with those horses who died, it goes without saying. You are entitled to your opinon as everyone else is, don't make this personal to me, it just so happens that within this population of people and therefore posters i am more alone in my views, take this board to Lambourn or Newmarket and see what the response would be there. well actually, you have been behaving as though we are NOT entitled to other opinions !! It's only personal to you because you are the one who has been attacking anyone who has ventured to disagree with you...
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:43
SW, are you saying we should still let students smoke in class?
3804
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EW MASTER
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:42
I don't like what you are saying SW but admire your tenacity in defending your position, without the rudeness of course. Like isaid earlier, in 100 years people will be agog that the GN was allowed to be run as it has been, just like I am agog that we used to smoke in the classroom during university classes.... As a race we leanrn and evolve I don't think i have been rude, sharp perhaps and too the point, a lot can be misinterpreted with the written word, country girls are born with tenacity. Your statement reminds me of something Eisenhower said on his leaving speech about the arms industry, if only the world had listened. Change is not always better, evolution does not always bring good and happier lives. It doesn't mean you're right though either SW. Sadly many of the people I grew up with were just darn p.i.g headed with a refusal to see any other opinion other than theirs.
1511
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:40
I don't like what you are saying SW but admire your tenacity in defending your position, without the rudeness of course. Like isaid earlier, in 100 years people will be agog that the GN was allowed to be run as it has been, just like I am agog that we used to smoke in the classroom during university classes.... As a race we leanrn and evolve I don't think i have been rude, sharp perhaps and too the point, a lot can be misinterpreted with the written word, country girls are born with tenacity. Your statement reminds me of something Eisenhower said on his leaving speech about the arms industry, if only the world had listened. Change is not always better, evolution does not always bring good and happier lives.
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EW MASTER
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:39
you can not make country folk out of townees No, but country folk can change their views as they become older and wiser - as I have! You'll always get the hardcore group, but I know plenty of people who used to take part in all the country sports and whatnot, who have changed their attitudes over the years.
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:37
Resorting to belittling those of us who hold different views to your own doesn't help your argument. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but equating greater safety for horses and riders with the 'PC brigade' wanting to ruin it for the 'country folk' is just ridiculous. I'm about as far from PC as you can get. Yes, the media play up the deaths and injuries. It's not news otherwise, although it certainly doesn't help rational discussion. But the facts remain; two horses died, one jockey has been critically injured. The race faces the same criticism year after year. Is it really necessary?
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:32
I don't like what you are saying SW but admire your tenacity in defending your position, without the rudeness of course. Like isaid earlier, in 100 years people will be agog that the GN was allowed to be run as it has been, just like I am agog that we used to smoke in the classroom during university classes.... As a race we leanrn and evolve
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:30
It's the Grand National.............not Death Race 2000. And if you'd stop treating any criticism as an attack on the sporting life............your valiant defence thereof would be unnecessary. LT it would make no difference whatever got said or in whatever way, you can not make country folk out of townees and i will not apologise for defending my beliefs or bow wow to abuse from posters because they can't comprehend what is written or begin to understand anything that is not published in trashy media. Nah, sorry i make no apologies.
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EW OLDHAND
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:20
It's the Grand National.............not Death Race 2000. And if you'd stop treating any criticism as an attack on the sporting life............your valiant defence thereof would be unnecessary.
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:17
Eek am sorry I ever asked the question!! Just logged in tonight and seen all the posts!
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:15
To put the number of deaths into perspective some more,since the GN began 6560 horses have run ( approximately) with "only" 81 deaths- thats pretty good odds....... The first race was held in 1839, the 1929 National featured the most starters in the race when 66 horses lined up.T he smallest field was in 1883 when just 10 faced the starter. The greatest number of horses to finish was 23 in 1984. Red Rum is the most successful horse, having won the Grand National three times: 1973, 1974 and 1977. The oldest winning horse is Peter Simple, aged 15 (1853); the youngest winning horses were Alcibiade (1865), Regal (1876), Austerlitz (1877), Empress (1880), Lutteur III (1909), all aged 5. Abd-El-Kader was the first horse to win back-to-back Nationals, in 1850 and 1851. The Colonel, (1869 & 1870), Reynoldstown (1935 & 1936) and Red Rum (1973 & 1974) have also retained the crown.
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EW OLDHAND
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:06
Maybe my elderly blue rinse secs, but I don't recall the sheer number of starters, nor the mass fallers, nor the t@ts oot for the lads.............global warming maybe there? Do recall very cold nether regions (mine) even with thermals at point to points tho......but then, that's why Grannie always had a flask of cherry brandy up one leg of her directoires. Oh I'm sure there was but it was just part of the whole thing, it has actually got safer over the years and been changed to be *safer*, lots of research etc. But now it appears to have become more about what women wear or don't rather and be picked to peices by the let's change everything brigade just because we can. Oh rollocks SW it hasn't got any safer.............yesterday showed that. I know exactly where you are coming from, with the horrors of the PC and elfin safety brigades, but please don't let it blind you to reality. The National could, and should be made safer, and still remain a splendid tradition, accidents will always happen, but both horses and riders deserve better than being turned into sacrificial victims in a war of cultures. Safer jumps and a smaller field do not mean per se opening the gates to the PC mob. Tho it would be nice to keep the other lot out.
1511
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 20:04
SW has spent all day defending this carnage without an ounce of respect for the two dead horses and critical jockey.. The only concern seems to be that the do-gooders will have sufficient influence as to bring about some much needed restrictions for future GNs. Personally I think it's a disgrace and something must be done to make it safer..Reducing the field and lowering the jumps will not make it "just another race" - it will always be the Grand National...but times are changing and the risk to life and limb no longer has any place in sport. On that basis lets put speed limiters on all F1 cars to 60 mph! I have every sympathy for the owners and everyone involved with those horses who died, it goes without saying. You are entitled to your opinon as everyone else is, don't make this personal to me, it just so happens that within this population of people and therefore posters i am more alone in my views, take this board to Lambourn or Newmarket and see what the response would be there.
3901
Posts
EW MASTER
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 19:52
SW has spent all day defending this carnage without an ounce of respect for the two dead horses and critical jockey.. The only concern seems to be that the do-gooders will have sufficient influence as to bring about some much needed restrictions for future GNs. Personally I think it's a disgrace and something must be done to make it safer..Reducing the field and lowering the jumps will not make it "just another race" - it will always be the Grand National...but times are changing and the risk to life and limb no longer has any place in sport.
3804
Posts
EW MASTER
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 19:47
I hate the National I really do. It's just become far too dangerous and they put those poor horses at risk every year for no good reason whatsoever. And before anyone jumps at me, I used to compete 2 day eventing with an irish-thoroughbred who failed on the flat, so I retrained her to event - and she did extremely well in all disciplines. Can't stand hunting either, you have a highly trained animal and you trash it by bombing across fields and causing utter carnage every weekend - the hunt were banned from our land.
1340
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EW OLDHAND
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 19:46
Maybe its my elderly blue rinse specs, but I don't recall the sheer number of starters, nor the mass fallers, nor the t@ts oot for the lads brigade.............global warming maybe there? Do recall very cold nether regions (mine) even with thermals at point to points tho......but then, that's why Grannie always had a flask of cherry brandy up one leg of her directoires. <em>edited by Livelytrish on 10/04/2011</em>
1511
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 19:38
SW, been folllowing the huntin'shootin' fishin' all my life....just don't approve of what the National has become. Yes i would have thought you had, but what it has become brings money to an industry in need, times are tough. I don't like it and wish those who don't understand or lack decorum could bog off and keep out of country sports but then we would be accused of elitism! LOL Was the national any different when you were younger, did you have the same opinons? The media certainly didn't spin like it does now and bleats out a very ill informed perspective. I'm waiting for the horror when the general public learn that eggs come out of chickens bottoms and daisy the cow does'nt spend all day eating grass in the sunshine and retire to home farm when she is 22! <em>edited by Sticky Wicket on 10/04/2011</em>
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EW OLDHAND
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 19:24
SW, been folllowing the huntin'shootin' fishin' all my life....just don't approve of what the National has become.
1511
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 19:19
DC, i get your point but isn''t that like any high powered sport or activity in the world, the risk increases as you get to the top end? Much research has been done on the fences and actually BB is not the worst culprit, research continues, we will see. As a child (on my wee pony) i spent years flying over solid 5 ft wide 5 ft high hedges and ditches without a care in the world, this is life. LT, Racehorses are thoroughbreds, many race on the flat first and then go NH, the bloodlines and genetics are the same but certain bloodlines are more predisposed to different aspects of competition which have been bred over years into them, ie sprint, mile'rs, hudlers, NH. Quite often failed flat horses are given another chance in the NH field and quite often a horse bred for NH will have a few flat runs prior to hurdles. They are no different from your flat horse, they are all purebred Thoroughbreds. For my posh hunter i like a bit of Irish mixed in with my TB adds a bit more brain to get you out of trouble as you bound over the 5ft stone walls! LOL Moving on this really has become a media frenzy in so many ways, it will be the begining of the road of restriction should it be stopped. Lord forbid anyone mentions shooting or hunting! Sorry multitasking will try to edit to make sense in parts! <em>edited by Sticky Wicket on 10/04/2011</em>
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 19:01
I won't bother editing my last post to save confusion. I just looked at images of one of the falls, and it is carnage. One horse broke its back and the other broke its neck. Is that really, seriously necessary for the excitement of the race? Honestly? And there's a jockey in hospital with serious head injuries. At least he had the capability to understand the risks and make a choice as to whether to race or not, not that that'll make his family feel any better.
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EW OLDHAND
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 18:59
So if not for jumps like the ones where the horses died, it'd just be another race. Great argument. It's not the Grand National unless there's a considerable risk of killing your horse? Charming. edited by DubaiCat on 10/04/2011 No DC, horses die in all sports whether over a jump or not, its a fact of life not charming. Point entirely missed. You said jumps like Becher's Brook 'made' the Grand National (with apologies if I haven't used the exact words) and from that, I understand you mean the excitement of the risk makes the race stand out from others. Therefore, 'it's not the Grand National if there isn't a considerable risk of killing your horse' isn't far off the mark, no? I'm not against racing per se. I just don't see why the jumps have to be made so difficult horses end up dying trying to get over them. Eaxctly so. It would still be a great race without the carnage. <em>edited by Livelytrish on 10/04/2011</em>
2937
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 10 April 2011 - 18:57
So if not for jumps like the ones where the horses died, it'd just be another race. Great argument. It's not the Grand National unless there's a considerable risk of killing your horse? Charming. edited by DubaiCat on 10/04/2011 No DC, horses die in all sports whether over a jump or not, its a fact of life not charming. Point entirely missed. You said jumps like Becher's Brook 'made' the Grand National (with apologies if I haven't used the exact words) and from that, I understand you mean the excitement of the risk makes the race stand out from others. Therefore, 'it's not the Grand National if there isn't a considerable risk of killing your horse' isn't far off the mark, no? I'm not against racing per se. I just don't see why the jumps have to be made so difficult horses end up dying trying to get over them.
 
 

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