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Is this racist or acceptably logical?

SarkySue6236658

212

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:05

International Private schools should take more local students so they can make friends who have the same nationality, religion, beliefs and build long lasting friendships? Something that is not possible with expats? As per a conversation with a local mum.

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27

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 19:35

I didn't say all expats have housing and school fees paid. Not all but some and I think most expats came to Dubai because of better salaries, and if they can't afford the school fees, they eventually leave, right? Yes, you're right, it might be short sighted to place children to school where students come mainly from one nation/region. My DH is Emirati and we have no children yet. But if we will have children, I would like them to learn Arabic fluently and as I am not Arabic speaker, I feel it could be better to put them to local Arabic school. As we all know Arabic is vanishing from Dubai and most people in the city don't speak Arabic, my DH uses English in many situations as there are no Arabic service available. I've even heard there are full Emiratis who can't speak or write Arabic properly although both of their parents are Emiratis. Influence of English is so strong in Dubai. Yes some Emiratis are educated overseas, but to be honest Emiratis are already small minority, especially in Dubai. Therefore I think whether they go to international or local government school, they will have loads of chances to meet people from other countries as well, at least if they want to.

2322

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 18:41

There are also many Emiratis who can't afford pay the school fees for international schools. Loads of Emiratis are earning only 10,000 a month or less and usually they have no packages (school fees paid, housing paid etc.)[color=#0000FF'>[/color'>Getting fed up with this assumption that all or most expats have their fees and housing paid...maybe 10 years ago? Not now like many expats have. Second reason why there are so less Emiratis in international schools could be that many locals want their children to learn the local culture and language so they feel government school is better.[color=#3300CC'>[/color'> Possibly, but given in our international school more attention and school hours are devoted to arabic, islamic studies (and then covered again rather thoroughly in social studies and geography) than just about any other subject including english...this is rather a moot point, no? Major issue is also the fact that most expats stay only few years in Dubai so many Emirati may feel that maintaining friendships is more easier among other Emiratis. [color=#0000CC'>[/color'>Maybe there are some people who feel that, but it rather cuts ones nose off to spite ones face don't you think? The world got a lot smaller in the last generation or so, and I do feel it's short sighted to limit your children to friends of one culture/religion/colour (heaven forbid, really!) when their world is going to be smaller still. Am I right in saying that alot of local young people are educated at tertiary level overseas? How does limiting their experiences with non emeratis effect their later education and social experience? Their businesses? Their entire life experience?

27

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 16:56

There are also many Emiratis who can't afford pay the school fees for international schools. Loads of Emiratis are earning only 10,000 a month or less and usually they have no packages (school fees paid, housing paid etc.) like many expats have. Second reason why there are so less Emiratis in international schools could be that many locals want their children to learn the local culture and language so they feel government school is better. Major issue is also the fact that most expats stay only few years in Dubai so many Emirati may feel that maintaining friendships is more easier among other Emiratis.

1811

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 16:56

There are some Arabic private schools that many locals and Arab expats attend such as Al Khawatek and Al Ittahad. I don't think it's a case of private schools turning locals away as we have experience of a few schools here and there were local children in all of them. Amy, your example may be an isolated case and if you were told that applying with a local passport would put you down the list you should have complained to the MOE as that's outright discrimination. Most government school are not highly regarded but there are also "Model" gov schools were parents pay a nominal fee and the standard of teaching is higher. A friend of ours used to teach at the one near near the Jumeriah post office.

gleekfamily24043

481

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 16:52

Yes the focus for me is on education not best friendships and how many of what nationality are in the school, yet this appears not to be the same for others. Where does that leave expats? In my opinion, a major part of a child's education at any level are experiences, the relationships and interactions you have with other children and adults. So for me, friendships play a big part.

1238

Posts

EW OLDHAND

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 16:45

I don't think it would make a difference if English was the second language and Arabic the first. I know people who know one language, English. They've never left Australia. Taught in Australian schools. Taught in private Australian schools. And their written English is disgraceful. I think the importance of having an education here is one of the best things. Don't get me started on the quality of Australian schools - DH is Australian and I wouldn't educate my kids there if [b'>they[/b'> paid [b'>me[/b'>! But I have to say, education is the most frustrating part of living in Dubai. If I had known what a mess it is, I would have fought harder not to move here.

SarkySue6236658

212

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 16:28

I don't think it would make a difference if English was the second language and Arabic the first. I know people who know one language, English. They've never left Australia. Taught in Australian schools. Taught in private Australian schools. And their written English is disgraceful. I think the importance of having an education here is one of the best things. Yes the focus for me is on education not best friendships and how many of what nationality are in the school, yet this appears not to be the same for others. Where does that leave expats?

SarkySue6236658

212

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 16:27

I thought Rashid School for boys and Latifa school for girls were filling the gap for high quality, private schools for Emirati kids. They can not get in there or want to sometimes.

12

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 16:26

I thought Rashid School for boys and Latifa school for girls were filling the gap for high quality, private schools for Emirati kids.

1238

Posts

EW OLDHAND

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 16:09

Frankly, I wish someone would start a good quality Arabic-first language school that would also accept Expats. When we lived in Jordan, we sent my son to the best nursery that was all in Arabic with one hour of English a day. He came out with some good Jordanian friends and a basic grasp of Arabic. I was planning to send him to a primarily Arabic-speaking school. But then we came here and when I looked for something similar, I was told it doesn't exist. Business idea?

SarkySue6236658

212

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 16:08

Guinness, how about ASD? I am not going to pay nearly 100,000dh for my kids to go to kindergarten. We can't afford it, but if we could, I'd be sending the to an elite private school in Manhattan for that same amount. You could buy the school in Manhattan for that price!!!!! Some of the school fees here are way beyond what many would pay in their home countries private sector. I worked out i pay £2000.00 more for the same year group year than i would at any top prep school in the UK, that would include lunch as well!! Some of the nurseries are worth looking at. <em>edited by SarkySue62 on 25/01/2011</em>

1238

Posts

EW OLDHAND

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 16:03

Guinness, how about ASD? I am not going to pay nearly 100,000dh for my kids to go to kindergarten. We can't afford it, but if we could, I'd be sending the to an elite private school in Manhattan for that same amount.

144

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 16:00

Up until a few years ago (I don't know when or if this has changed as I no longer work in education in the UAE) it was decreed by the MOE that any Arab child from any Arabic speaking country must attend a school where Arabic was taught as a first language. At the time (I don't know about now) it was not a subject that most schools were teaching (second language Arabic was the requirement) and so, as a result, Arabic children of many nationalties were excluded from most non Government schools by the MOE. Even if the MOE rule has now changed, it must have resulted in a mainly non-Arabic speaking student body moving upwards though the schools. If the rule has now been changed, the student body will eventualy become more balanced, although with the low percentage of Locals against other nationalities in the UAE, the numbers will probably not become even for many years.

1579

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:55

There are a lot of if's that could be blown about. For once it may give you comfort to acknowledge that change here takes some time and many will be gone before anything as drastic as what you envisage comes to fruition.

232

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:54

No she doesn't mind the mix but does not value the mix, ideally more locals should be accepted into the private school system so they can have a greater selection to make best friends with. Mixed best friendships were not acceptable as expats are only here "for a few years". Doesn't seem racist to me. When our first DD started school back home, we encountered a similar issue with our nearest school. The school student body were primarily Army kids who were there for maybe 3 years and then they'd leave. I spoke to several mums who discussed the pitfalls of short friendships with children and their need for stability and security.

521

Posts

EW GURU

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:51

Guinness, how about ASD?

SarkySue6236658

212

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:50

What concerns me is if an International school becomes top heavy with locals with such a mentality where does it leave the expat children? Is there a natural progression to segregation due to this mentality from local mums? The requirements for the children become different, locals will want more Arabic, Islamic studies and expats not? Can it really work in harmony?

1238

Posts

EW OLDHAND

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:46

Acceptably logical. They can put themselves down on the waitlist just as well as I can. I've never heard a school say they won't accept an Emirati student, given equal qualifications and time on the waitlist. I have. When DS was younger if I would have handed a school an Australian passport we would have been told we would get an interview in the month. When I handed his Emirati passport I was told 'places are limited' and to put his application in elsewhere because they may not call us. So there is discrimination. The bottom line is that there is a woeful lack of spaces for quality education in this country. We are going to have to move if I can't find a space for my daughter (not to mention son and youngest twins) in a decent school. I can only asume that the barriers to opening new schools are so large that it prohibits supply from meeting demand. edited by guinness on 25/01/2011

SarkySue6236658

212

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:42

Is it also more a case that expats accept that there children will move more and therefore do not focus so heavily on the longterm and best friendships as the overall priority when chosing a school?

gleekfamily24043

481

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:40

Do private schools really TURN AWAY Emiratis? Isn't the Emirati AED = American/British/whatever AED (and haven't we established that money makes the schools happy)? If this was REALLY the case, I would think there would be an "Emitarization"-esque program that would require private schools to accept X% of Emirati students to be in compliance (or give them some sort of compensation/incentive to do so).

1238

Posts

EW OLDHAND

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:34

Acceptably logical. Imagine if it were happening in your country for a moment. You have public schools but they aren't that good quality and when you try to give your child a school of good quality they put your application to the back because you have access to the public school. The public school which may not cater to your childs' individual needs, where the teachers are not as qualified as the private school ones. It is discrimination against locals because they have another option. If this were happening in your country, let's say you're from the UK and you are in an area with poor quality public schools so want to go to the good private school but find out that most of the places have been taken by Afghanis/Iraqis/Chinese etc. And they tell you to go to the public school. Or your child gets accepted but has no friends because he/she is the 'odd one out'. And given that many places are paid for by companies, it's nearly similar to being told in the UK that the places aren't available for your child then finding out those children are in there not from their own money but from tax benefits. So, yes, it's completely logical that she would want more Emirati's in the school. Many people have attitudes towards Emirati's and de-socialise their children, telling them not to make friends with them or they see how their parents disrespect them/joke about how their country wouldn't exist without expats. I'm with her. More Emirati's need to be accepted into private schools and should not be discriminated against because they have a free option. They can put themselves down on the waitlist just as well as I can. I've never heard a school say they won't accept an Emirati student, given equal qualifications and time on the waitlist.

654

Posts

EW GURU

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:34

Well, if more Emiratis were attending the international schools they would crowd out the expat children, and the schools were founded primarily to educate expat children who, until very recently, weren't even allowed to attend the local schools. Acceptably logical. Imagine if it were happening in your country for a moment. You have public schools but they aren't that good quality and when you try to give your child a school of good quality they put your application to the back because you have access to the public school. The public school which may not cater to your childs' individual needs, where the teachers are not as qualified as the private school ones. It is discrimination against locals because they have another option. If this were happening in your country, let's say you're from the UK and you are in an area with poor quality public schools so want to go to the good private school but find out that most of the places have been taken by Afghanis/Iraqis/Chinese etc. And they tell you to go to the public school. Or your child gets accepted but has no friends because he/she is the 'odd one out'. And given that many places are paid for by companies, it's nearly similar to being told in the UK that the places aren't available for your child then finding out those children are in there not from their own money but from tax benefits. So, yes, it's completely logical that she would want more Emirati's in the school. Many people have attitudes towards Emirati's and de-socialise their children, telling them not to make friends with them or they see how their parents disrespect them/joke about how their country wouldn't exist without expats. I'm with her. More Emirati's need to be accepted into private schools and should not be discriminated against because they have a free option.

1579

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:33

Try reversing the situation. If my home country was the expat destination and it had little opportunity for immigration then I would encourage my children to be friends with all however I would understand the importance of also having local friendship which would be constant and less likely subjected to change. There is also comfort to be had by having some friends who fully understand your cultural background.

1238

Posts

EW OLDHAND

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:33

I was told that it was Repton's policy (when we were waitlisted there) to encourage more locals to attend that school ...

gleekfamily24043

481

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:27

CT brings up an excellent point...as do you SS62. Regardless of the woman's intention or reasoning, there is something to be said about the expat life and the toll it takes on relationships.

SarkySue6236658

212

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:27

So if we reversed this and i had stated i wished there were more white western christian children (the minority) in the school would i have been deemed a racist?

SarkySue6236658

212

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:24

But is this installing a form of segregated mentality into children who are meant to all get along together through out the school? The religion and beliefs part was quite hard for me to understand combined with such a heavy focus on "Best friendships". This seemed the most important focus, not the actual school. I felt it devalued the best friendship my child has with another local mums child (she was there also but said nothing).

1579

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:23

I think one must also consider that most expat children move away after a time and long distance friendships can be more difficult to maintain. Is it possible she meant increasing local friendships in addition to expat friendships?

gleekfamily24043

481

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:20

You should tell her that more locals should opt to send their children to the international private schools. I don't think private schools are turning away $$$, I mean students. So it's not an admissions issue but a parental choice. At DS's school, there are Arabs and particularly Emiratis that attend the school. Personally, I think that local students may lose out on valuable cultural and language instruction if they attend an international school. But if the private school offers better overall education... I think it's a harder decision than most think.

293

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 25 January 2011 - 15:18

I don't think it's racist as she probably meant she wanted more Muslims to connect with each other and not necessarily limit the interaction of Muslims and non-Muslims. Just that she wanted that option to be available to her kids. In government schools there are an eclectic mix of Sudanese, Palestinian, Jordanian, Syrian, Iraqi, Saudi, Bahraini, Somali, Yemeni, Lebanese...etc students along with the Emiratis. At one time in a government school there were 50 Emiratis only on a high school premise.

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