PND and treatment

I just need to add a reply about Dr Carol Smylie: she has gone to Australia to be closer to her children.... and I am 100% sure of that.

If its any help i think Carol Smylie has gone to healthbay polyclinic on al wasl road but i'm not 100% sure. I was recommended st johns wort which seemed to help a bit after about a month but then you never know if it is just your brain thinking its working cos you are now taking something. I find that Dubai is the loneliest place in the world full of fake people who come and go pretending they are interestedin you. There is nothing at all to do with a baby except walk round a shopping mall. Everyone's answer is to get a maid and that will make life wonderful!!! Motherhood is the worst thing in the world and as you have said you love them to bits but wonder every day if you are doing things right, or counting the minutes until they go to sleep. My mum said that her favourite times of the day were putting me to bed at night and then going to bed herself!!!!! If ever you want to talk things through over coffee, or iflike my little one they wont sit still to allow you a coffee, then chat while they play at a mall play centre then just shout, much cheaper than counselling!!! Just remember you arent the only one out there who is finding life hard and grieving for your previous life - work, social life, having time to get dressed and go to the toilet on your own, and using your brain xxxxx

I have been fortunate not to suffer from PND, but I did have my own battle with depression many years ago, (in my case it was reactive, not chemical) sadly despite the fact I was in the middle of my psychology degree at the time, I didn’t really realize just how serious things were and never sought help which is something I regret. Its important to always keep in mind that PND is a PHYSICAL depression. There is something physically going on in your body, which is why drugs help to treat it. So telling someone with PND to “snap out of it” is like telling the asthmatic “for goodness sake, just breathe”. If PND is like asthma, motherhood is like a marathon. Its hard slog for the fittest strongest athlete and you certainly wouldn’t expect an asthmatic to handle it without their inhaler nor would you say “but the other runners can handle the marathon without medication, why can’t she?” A GP might be a good place to start, but even if you have to pay out of pocket, ultimately you really should see a trained therapist/psychiatrist sooner rather than later. The fact that you have had run the marathon of motherhood at the same time as having PND means that although you might not realise it, you have inevitably experienced actual emotional trauma along the way, which will continue to fuel your depression if not addressed. While the right drugs will help stop this from continuing, therapy will help you work through what has happened so far, give you some coping strategies and ensure it doesn’t affect your relationship with or your feelings toward your child. The chemistry of depression means its hard for you to feel the real highs that do come with motherhood, so your worries that you are not enjoying it as much as you feel you “should” could also be addressed by meds. I’m not sure if this applies to you, but as strongly as I do believe in breastfeeding I am definitely supportive of mothers with PND not continuing to nurse. I think it’s a serious enough condition that you need to be able to work through all the available medication and find the right mix for you, without being restricted to BF-safe drugs. As far as “natural mothers” I think that’s a bit of a myth, kind of like the airbrushed complexions we see on magazine covers, they just don’t exist anywhere in the ideal way we imagine. I would actually go as far as to say my son IS the most important thing I my life. By that I mean that if there were a burning building full of everyone I love, I would try to save him first. I do not however extend that to mean that he is the source of all the happiness in my life, or even that he makes me happy all the time. Nor do I expect that I should devote my entire life to making him happy. Just yesterday I was explaining to my husband that all day I had felt like I was floundering in deep water, and my son was like a lead weight tied to my ankle, dragging me under (yep it was one of “those” days), and that’s me talking from the perspective of a mum who doesn’t have PND. It’s a marathon for everyone, but at the very least you should try and get yourself on a level playing field! Sorry if the above is a written in a bit of a clinical way, I just wanted to make sure you understand that your need for meds has nothing to do with how you feel about being a mother, so please don’t doubt yourself there or compare yourself to a fictional ideal. Big Hugs xxx

Dr Kay Deeming at Infinity clinic on alwasl rd, close to park and shop is very sympathetic and understanding, good luck :)

Sorry to hear that, I went to see Dr Fischer at Cooper Clinic. He was great, explained things really well and was very caring. He made me feel so much better. Hope you get to see somebody soon and feel better x

Hi again - I'm struggling to keep up with all your replies but just to let you know am reading them and would like to maybe comment again when I get the chance...! I just read about ' children not being the most important thing' and I've always thought to myself that I'm not the most likely candidate to be a Mum and although I love my boy to bits, I am getting through this, never to be repeated again to be honest. Don't get me wrong am enjoying it at times but at other times I almost wonder how I'll ever manage to raise him as I'm so out of my depth and also want some life of my own! I guess then that's normal? Well, it's normal for me... and from chatting to my mum friends, anyone who says she knows what she's doing, has got it all sussed and never has any doubts is lying... and not very well, at that! Just when you think you're coming out of the tunnel and think you have a teensy bit of a clue, those bloomin' hormones take over again and make you think it's an absolutely fantastic idea to have another one! But it is easier second time around, because you've learnt the key lesson that there's no right or wrong - and where there's no possibility of doing something wrong, it's impossible to fail... it's just different choices on a path. I think DC is right - a lot is down to unrealistic expectations. I am lucky in that my MiL was back at work shortly after having #3 and #4 (DH) and had some quite frankly dubious practices (quite how she managed to work night shifts and still manage with 4 children is beyond me!)... my own mum took nearly 5 years out of work, but found, just like I have done, that she needed more, so started writing books and didn't stop until she got one published. We all learn to manage in different ways, but the point is, regardless of the approach we take, it all turns out just fine in the end... it's just a case of finding ways to manage that fit in with you, as an individual.

Like on planes - put the oxygen mask over your face first and then help others. I'm going to add that to 'Chocolate, cake and chocolate cake'. Priceless :D.

I hope it is! I love mine more than I could ever have imagined I could love anyone (and I'm slightly worried about how I'm ever going to love #2 as much) but I need time away from him. I'm just not one of those natural, falling-off-a-log mums who just seem to 'know' what to do with babies and children. To me, raising a child is such a huge responsibility and I regularly feel completely out of my depth. I think a part of my PND was affected by expectations of me shown by other members of my family, namely my Mum! I get the impression she completely gave up her life for the three of us and didn't have a life of her own, and now she thinks we should do the same. I don't think she thinks it because it's the right thing to do - more that she thinks, well, she suffered so we should too! Does that make sense? She makes me feel guilty if I'm not running around after him entertaining him every second he's awake. Staying at hers over the summer completely exhausted me, because if I sat down with a cup of tea and let him play by himself she made it quite clear she thought I was shirking my responsibilities. And as for go out on my own... let's just say I spent over two months there, went for dinner twice and went to the salon once when he was asleep. Hmmm.

Of course they're the most important little things in our lives but we need some downtime just to chill out, relax and wind down. If I think DS is going to sleep for three hours and he wakes after one, I could cheerfully kill someone because I've been cheated out of my me-time. Yet another thing nobody really 'gets', especially not my mother. Last time I complained about this she told me I was a glass-half-empty kind of person! Jeez, thanks, Mum. . Going out on a limb here, but my children aren't the most important things in my life. My sanity and health is. Selfish? Gnyer... maybe, but seeing as they're so dependant on me, if I'm not happy no-one is. If you look out for you first, everything will fall into place. Like on planes - put the oxygen mask over your face first and then help others. You're also not alone in feeling cheated when they don't sleep as long as you were hoping. I always felt that way. I also feel that way when I get called in to nursery to pick one or the other up early. I've put 4 years of my life into bringing up my children... wanting a few hours to myself in exchange, surely isn't that hard to fathom?!

I'm pretty sure my DH wonders why I can't just snap out of it too. Another close friend of mine, who saw him while I was home in the UK, said when she brought up the whole PND thing he couldn't change the subject quick enough! I do feel for him but at the end of the day, it is an illness and he needs to man up and be supportive as I'm expected to be every time he has man flu/ebola/the plague or whatever else he gets on a regular basis. As you have a long-term illness, I'd say you definitely need a consultation with a doctor to see if there are any links between it (or the severity of it) and depression, or any contraindications for medication you might be able to take. One thing I did try was St John's Wort (sorry, I'd forgotten about that) and I do think it made a difference. I'm not sure if it was a placebo effect or a real one but I do remember thinking I was starting to feel better after I started taking it. Dr Smylie recommended it. I so hear you about the time to yourself during the day. I know to some it might sound trivial but having an hour or two to sit down, fart about on FB or on here, check emails or whatever, to remind you you're still you underneath being LO's mum, is vital. We never, ever totally switch off from being LO's mum and to me, it's identity theft. Of course they're the most important little things in our lives but we need some downtime just to chill out, relax and wind down. If I think DS is going to sleep for three hours and he wakes after one, I could cheerfully kill someone because I've been cheated out of my me-time. Yet another thing nobody really 'gets', especially not my mother. Last time I complained about this she told me I was a glass-half-empty kind of person! Jeez, thanks, Mum. The lack of me-time is probably even worse for you as any time you do get, you need to sleep. If I've had a bad night with DS and need a nap, I hate that I can't have a nap and me-time. I feel like I'm wasting my me-time by napping, but I'm too tired not to nap. Catch-22.

he doesn't really understand why[b'> I can't just 'snap out of it'. [/b'>Neither do I for that matter - there is nothing horrible about my life so why do I feel so fearful and down?. That, my dear, is it. You've absolutely hit the nail on the head in that paragraph and summed up all the frustration, anger, resentment and confusion the is the root of a lot of depression. If you're anything like me, you kind of feel detached... like 2 people - one, you, who knows that you can do this stuff - and more! That one's jumping up and down inside a little glass box going "what on earth are you doing?! This doesn't make sense - you can do it, and you know you can!"... but the point is, there's the glass box and outside of it, your mind doesn't seem to be able to follow any kind of logic and even though you realise that there are some very reasonable arguments to help you and a very logical reason behind it all... and that if you could only get your brain to function properly, you could analyse all of that and come up with a logical Action Plan... but it's not quite working... like when the car won't start... just a big horrid empty revving sound! The point is, the strong, capable you is still in there and wants to get back to normal, but needs some help to do so. With regards to your relationship, yes, it can be tough - my depression nearly split DH and I up, but that was nearly 10 years ago now. If anything, we grew to understand each other better... and I learnt a bit more about myself. With your friends, I would suggest that you tell your close friends that you do have PND (it's not a personal failure, it's a medical condition - would you shy away from telling people you had a cold?) and add that you're working on getting better, but in the mean-time, ask them to bear with you and be especially supportive (and positive). Talk to them about how your depression manifests itself but know that unless they've been there themselves, they won't be able to actually understand. You don't need them to, you just need them to be there, like normal. Anyhow, the frankensense is just my little thing that I found... my uni used to offer free reflexology when you were stressed out and one day, I went in and the reflexologist asked me if I needed to relax - no, I said, I need to focus! I need to be pin-sharp, on the ball - I can't wallow around mulling over stuff... I need action! (I had a deadline...)... anyhow, so she mixed frankensense (for the focus) and ginger (for energy) and did her stuff... OMG, was it good! I got home positively on fire... the only problem was, by the time DH came home from work, I was so "on fire", I'd actually stopped working and was literally bouncing around the room. Since then, I haven't touched the ginger essential oil, but I always have a bottle of frankensense to sniff or burn when I'm feeling in a bit of a rut. It seems to clear my head. You could also try maybe some tai chi or meditation. Both are very gentle and I always come away from tai chi with more energy than when I went in. Have a look online for Qi Gong (various spellings of it, of course) which are breathing exercises that focus your energy (sounding increasingly hippy-ish here, I realise!)... anyhow, this chap seems to have a nice way of demonstrating... [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qisM5kItweI&feature=relmfu'>YouTube link[/url'>... there are lots of postures, but I really like the [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1mV89SiEJQ&NR=1'>tree [/url'> because the key is to ground you, you feel connected, you feel strong and in control and if you really concentrate, you can feel the energy that your arms are encircling - which is amazing because it's [i'>you[/i'> and you alone creating that energy. Meditation-wise, my old tai chi teacher told me a nice technique. Basically, where ever you are, imagine you're sitting on a riverbank, just watching the water go past (nice day, under a tree, birds in the branches, you get the idea). It's pretty much impossible to have a totally blank mind (indeed, as soon as you think you've got a blank mind, you haven't, because you're thinking about it!)... so instead of "clearing your mind", just think of all your thoughts as leaves on the water - they appear and wash away, as the river passes you. You don't try to hold on to them, just watch them all float by, peacefully. --- Sorry, I've just been caught in a YouTube loop and have to link this [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbgO_rsne14&feature=related'>chap[/url'>... he's actually demonstrating a set fo Qi Gong moves to help against depression (over 5 short videos), which is really sweet... although you may want to try them when no-one's in the house... the noises are hilarious [regains serious face'> but an integral part of the exercise! <em>edited by Hello.Again.Kitty on 05/10/2011</em>

I think having a solid support network around you, of people who really and truly know what you're going through, is really important. My DH - bless him - is the most amazing bloke but utterly, utterly useless when it comes to my PND. He has no clue. I think, if I'm truthful, he wants to ignore it in the hope it'll go away. As H.A.K says, it's the ones who can normally cope with anything and have that 'Keep Calm and Carry On' mentality who tend to suffer the most, because they're the ones who hate not being able to cope the most and just keep going and going until they crack. I'm the positive one in our relationship and I'm the one who keeps going and going and in the end I just cracked. DH doesn't like to see that - I guess it makes him feel like maybe things aren't as rosy as I always try and reassure him they are, kind of like if I'm losing it then yikes, it must be bad! I have a close friend who had PND after her DD was born and she's a great help to me. She's probably the only person I can really talk to honestly about it and the only one who really understands. Do you have anyone like that? If not, I'm sure loads of us on here will be happy to meet up for a coffee and probably a tear or two. I have been meaning to pop over and bend H.A.K's ear for a while now and it's about time I got my butt in gear! That's such a lovely post DC! What a wonderful support network EW is!

I think having a solid support network around you, of people who really and truly know what you're going through, is really important. My DH - bless him - is the most amazing bloke but utterly, utterly useless when it comes to my PND. He has no clue. I think, if I'm truthful, he wants to ignore it in the hope it'll go away. As H.A.K says, it's the ones who can normally cope with anything and have that 'Keep Calm and Carry On' mentality who tend to suffer the most, because they're the ones who hate not being able to cope the most and just keep going and going until they crack. I'm the positive one in our relationship and I'm the one who keeps going and going and in the end I just cracked. DH doesn't like to see that - I guess it makes him feel like maybe things aren't as rosy as I always try and reassure him they are, kind of like if I'm losing it then yikes, it must be bad! I have a close friend who had PND after her DD was born and she's a great help to me. She's probably the only person I can really talk to honestly about it and the only one who really understands. Do you have anyone like that? If not, I'm sure loads of us on here will be happy to meet up for a coffee and probably a tear or two. I have been meaning to pop over and bend H.A.K's ear for a while now and it's about time I got my butt in gear!

I totally know what you are going through. I had it with my dd but refused to see anybody as dubaicat says I also felt like a failure as a mum. I now have a 4 month ds and as soon as I felt signs of pnd I went straight to see Dr Fischer at Cooper clinic, he was brilliant and explained it all so well and was very good at providing lots of tissues!! He is such a nice man, he prescribed medication which I took a while to take because again I felt like a failure taking these. I am now onto my 3rd month and I am feeling much better, I do have good days and bad days. I am back at work this week and still not sure whether it will make it better or worse. The last time I got better at around this time as I felt better getting into a routine again but this time I am not getting much sleep ( subject of another thread). My advice would be to go and see the dr and talk about it, you will feel so much better. Thinking of you x

I've suffered from depression in the past and was on PND-watch, especially with my second. DC's feelings on the matter echo mine and the first step in getting better really is the realisation that you need some help [i'>to help yourself[/i'>. My Dr at the time said something that was strangely reassuring - that often, it's the strongest people, who are usually completely able to cope, are in control and who are generally confident who suffer the most from depression. A trigger (or series of triggers) just kicks off an imbalance of hormones that our bodies sometimes can't rebalance on their own... and there you go. I also see anti-Ds as a help, not some kind of zombie-making drug. They clear your mind so that you can then take charge again without those all-pervasive negative thoughts (that you don't like and can't control) holding you back. They allowed me to make a Plan to get me out of the rut I found myself in and allowed me to action it. I liken them to any other medication - if you're in pain, you take painkillers, no? Anyhow, if you are hesitant and/or unable to see anyone about it, there are a few things you can try: - work out (either by yourself or together with DH) a plan of things that you can do to make yourself feel better... and then do them - think of a small project or series of small projects that you can achieve... and achieve them, for yourself (could be the couch to 5k, something crafty, trying a new recipe every week, studying...) - try and get out of the house for a walk every day (this could be on your achievement list - win win!) - get your DH to take over for an evening, or two or three or a whole day at the weekend and go off and be yourself, by yourself, as sociable or as solitary as you fancy at the time. - eat well and try to sleep well too. - I also swear by frankensense (sp?!)... it helps stop your mind dwelling on things. Combine with ginger and you'll be bouncing around like a lunatic! - try to work out what bothers you (DH can help) and with DH, talk about them. Tell him that you just need to talk, not to find solutions and ask him to just be a very patient listening pair of ears. It really is hard for partners to understand - DH would get frustrated after a while (and he's a patient chap) when I would want to talk about the same thing for the 100th time, like some kind of broken record, but that's the point, we get stuck on little things that seem insurmountable, but we just need the time to see them for what they really are. You will get there.

I saw her when DS was about five or six months old, and again a couple of months later. While she did recommend a psychologist, she also said she'd be happy to prescribe medication if that was the route I wanted to take. I was adamant I didn't want to take anything (oh, how ridiculously stupid of me, but for some reason I felt like I wouldn't be 'me' any more if I was on medication for it) so in the end, I did nothing. I would have been better far sooner had I done one or the other. DS is 16 months now and I still have good days and bad days. I'm due with my second in about six weeks, which I think isn't helping at the moment as I seem to be having more bad days than I used to. I think, though, I started feeling properly better around eight or nine months post-birth, just before I found out I was pregnant again. At this stage (before the second pregnancy) I was back to exercising, getting out by myself more and generally just feeling like I had some kind of life outside being a mum again. Can I ask, does your LO sleep well? I was originally diagnosed with PND in the UK and my doctor there said it was likely caused - or at least exacerbated - by extended sleep deprivation, as my son was a terrible sleeper from 4 to 8 months. Now I'm well aware that broken sleep, or particularly being woken while in a deep sleep, is the main trigger and a few days of that can easily send me over the edge again. One of the worst things about PND, for me, was admitting it and talking about it. I hated feeling weak and like I was a failure as a mum because of it. I still feel like that now but am fine talking about it on good days (bad days, forget it!). I'm utterly petrified of having it again with baby #2 - and I do sometimes think it's never properly gone away since DS - but one thing I'm absolutely sure of is that the minute I start feeling anything like how bad I felt at its worst, I am straight off to the doctor to take whatever they can give me until I rattle. Do go and see Carol Smylie. She is very sympathetic at the same time as being practical and logical, which is just what you need when you're emotionally fragile. I bawled in her office both times I saw her and she was fine with that! I so hope you get the help you need soon. It's a horrible, horrible situation to be in and I feel for you.