Refugees in Europe

I really think you don't realize what it means to leave your country with our family and only what you can carry and face a future of unsure legal status, usually the inability to work legally to support yourself, and to find yourself spending all of your life's savings just to survive until you hope to find a way out of that limbo. I lived in Egypt through the beginning of the Syrian civil war until very recently, and it's one of those other "safe countries" where tens of thousands of Syrians chose to go at the beginning because it's very cheap to live there compared to Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, the EU etc. And it was a friendly state at the time of Morsi with Syrian kids being given access to public schooling (however crappy it is) and Syrians generally being let in visa-free and given access to public healthcare and often able to work. They found retail jobs and opened shawerma and sweets shops that totally revolutionized the Egyptian market in terms of expectations of quality and customer service -- the vast majority are very polite, responsible, hard working people. But now due to political problems and xenophobia their status is much less secure and many have been imprisoned or deported or taken the difficult decision to try to make it to Europe when they couldn't bear the insecurity anymore. It might be fine to stay in a poor MENA or south European country for a few months or even years if there was a light at the end of the tunnel and the possibility of being able to return to Syria was imminent, but over time that has seemed less and less likely for reasons totally out of their control (it's a civil war!). And you should know this: most Syrians would prefer and love to return to Syria. This has absolutely nothing to do with opportunism. With that becoming a non-option and the situation in Syria deteriorating to the point of no return, of course they want a stable and secure future for themselves and their children that includes attaining citizenship and accessing public services and work in a good economy. Otherwise they face destitution in a poor country that has little to help them with when they find themselves with no savings left to shelter and feed their children.

Pfff what a typical, 'easy' throw back reply. But that's the other thing. Why is nothing being done to make their country safe? To rebuild it and make it a place people want to be? (sadly I know the answer to this and it's shameful). There is something fundamentally wrong. You just sit there and think everything is an easy fix, it's not. You can't take one situation and then make a big mess somewhere else. This has to stop. Other countries need to help - I don't see anyone broaching that situation (well we have but the posts get deleted) - go read all the comments on the press stories and the global opinion is people are appalled and ashamed at the lack of assistance. Some of you think things are so easily fixed, that other countries are able and capable to take all these people - sadly NOT THE CASE. Possible if done properly, but not in the way you suggest.

People should be able to live wherever they want? Oh if only it were that easy! The EU laws governing refugees state, that a refugee must find refuge and apply for asylum in the first safe country they land in. Applications are then processed and refugees are then sent to countries that can offer help and this is based on land mass, population, economic viability etc. The EU has the numbers as to how many refugees each of its member states can take in and cope with. When you have people who do not do this, and press on into other countries, that is a different decision making process. You then have the issue of some countries having more people than they can cope with and others who can take on more, having less, simply because people would rather go to one country or another. Certain other countries are refusing to help and seem to do nothing, when in fact they are the ones who should be opening their borders and assisting, instead of making this a 'European refugee crisis' - which it's not at all. BBC News had an interesting article as to why Syrians are heading to Europe instead of 'certain' other countries. Also look up the world bank data on how many refugees each country in the world currently has - that is a complete eye opener, and 'some' countries should be ashamed. There was also an article with the father of the little boy that drowned this morning - heartbreaking and tragic to read. BUT the thing that stuck out? They were trying to get to CANADA!!! CANADA - how many safe countries inbetween? Why oh why risk yourselves unnecessarily. They probably didn't choose to go to Canada because it would be fun to see a moose. It's not always realistic to go to nearest 'safe ' country. They will have weighed in where it would be possible to have a future and be able to secure jobs and education. Do you really think you are in a position to judge these people? Are you NOT judging by saying people should be allowed to go wherever they want? Seriously? If you are fleeing from war, persecution and murder, ANY safe country is better than what you're running from. All I can say; thank your lucky star for where you were born.

People should be able to live wherever they want? Oh if only it were that easy! The EU laws governing refugees state, that a refugee must find refuge and apply for asylum in the first safe country they land in. Applications are then processed and refugees are then sent to countries that can offer help and this is based on land mass, population, economic viability etc. The EU has the numbers as to how many refugees each of its member states can take in and cope with. When you have people who do not do this, and press on into other countries, that is a different decision making process. You then have the issue of some countries having more people than they can cope with and others who can take on more, having less, simply because people would rather go to one country or another. Certain other countries are refusing to help and seem to do nothing, when in fact they are the ones who should be opening their borders and assisting, instead of making this a 'European refugee crisis' - which it's not at all. BBC News had an interesting article as to why Syrians are heading to Europe instead of 'certain' other countries. Also look up the world bank data on how many refugees each country in the world currently has - that is a complete eye opener, and 'some' countries should be ashamed. There was also an article with the father of the little boy that drowned this morning - heartbreaking and tragic to read. BUT the thing that stuck out? They were trying to get to CANADA!!! CANADA - how many safe countries inbetween? Why oh why risk yourselves unnecessarily. They probably didn't choose to go to Canada because it would be fun to see a moose. It's not always realistic to go to nearest 'safe ' country. They will have weighed in where it would be possible to have a future and be able to secure jobs and education. Do you really think you are in a position to judge these people? Are you NOT judging by saying people should be allowed to go wherever they want? Seriously? If you are fleeing from war, persecution and murder, ANY safe country is better than what you're running from. What country does have secure jobs right now? Seriously cloud cuckoo land some of you.

People should be able to live wherever they want? Oh if only it were that easy! The EU laws governing refugees state, that a refugee must find refuge and apply for asylum in the first safe country they land in. Applications are then processed and refugees are then sent to countries that can offer help and this is based on land mass, population, economic viability etc. The EU has the numbers as to how many refugees each of its member states can take in and cope with. When you have people who do not do this, and press on into other countries, that is a different decision making process. You then have the issue of some countries having more people than they can cope with and others who can take on more, having less, simply because people would rather go to one country or another. Certain other countries are refusing to help and seem to do nothing, when in fact they are the ones who should be opening their borders and assisting, instead of making this a 'European refugee crisis' - which it's not at all. BBC News had an interesting article as to why Syrians are heading to Europe instead of 'certain' other countries. Also look up the world bank data on how many refugees each country in the world currently has - that is a complete eye opener, and 'some' countries should be ashamed. There was also an article with the father of the little boy that drowned this morning - heartbreaking and tragic to read. BUT the thing that stuck out? They were trying to get to CANADA!!! CANADA - how many safe countries inbetween? Why oh why risk yourselves unnecessarily. They probably didn't choose to go to Canada because it would be fun to see a moose. It's not always realistic to go to nearest 'safe ' country. They will have weighed in where it would be possible to have a future and be able to secure jobs and education. Do you really think you are in a position to judge these people?

People should be able to live wherever they want? Oh if only it were that easy! The EU laws governing refugees state, that a refugee must find refuge and apply for asylum in the first safe country they land in. Applications are then processed and refugees are then sent to countries that can offer help and this is based on land mass, population, economic viability etc. The EU has the numbers as to how many refugees each of its member states can take in and cope with. When you have people who do not do this, and press on into other countries, that is a different decision making process. You then have the issue of some countries having more people than they can cope with and others who can take on more, having less, simply because people would rather go to one country or another. Certain other countries are refusing to help and seem to do nothing, when in fact they are the ones who should be opening their borders and assisting, instead of making this a 'European refugee crisis' - which it's not at all. BBC News had an interesting article as to why Syrians are heading to Europe instead of 'certain' other countries. Also look up the world bank data on how many refugees each country in the world currently has - that is a complete eye opener, and 'some' countries should be ashamed. There was also an article with the father of the little boy that drowned this morning - heartbreaking and tragic to read. BUT the thing that stuck out? They were trying to get to CANADA!!! CANADA - how many safe countries inbetween? Why oh why risk yourselves unnecessarily. If things don't improve soon and others step up to help, you'll soon find European countries just closing their borders, revoking the Shengen visa program - which has already been discussed and just saying no more.

For those that have the view that correct procedures should be followed, it's really not that simple. It is easy to talk about doing things the 'right way' when you actually have the means to do so. http://news.sky.com/story/1546481/dead-boys-aunt-tells-of-asylum-claim-despair If you don't have those means, what do you do? Sit and wait to for your situation to deteriorate even further so you have absolutely no means of escape, or take a chance to get out while you still can? Would you stay to watch your children face hardship, hunger and violence? Accept your lot simply because of where you were born? Or would you do anything for a better life for your children? JK Rowling, once again, has said it beautifully. "If you can't imagine yourself in one of those boats, you have something missing. "They are dying for a life worth living,"

[i'>[b'>I am a passport holder of the most beneficial passport.[/b'>[/i'> I really don't think there is a "most beneficial passport." There are about 20 one might choose. [i'>[b'>I have never been denied entering a country.[/b'>[/i'> You haven't traveled very much or for very long. [i'>[b'>I have always been welcomed with open arms.[/b'>[/i'> See previous response [i'>[b'>I have always been awed, because where I am from.[/b'>[/i'> I have not, my country has been a major embarrassment to me, many times over. [b'>What have I done to achieve that? Absolutely nothing.[/b'> Agreed, for me as well. http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/the-most-powerful-passports-in-the-world-10194423.html I am very well travelled, thank you very much, not been living in my home country for 16 years and been trying to see as much as I can of the world. Yes silvset is right, when she talks about the most beninfical passport she is saying the one that can get you into a other countries without having a to apply for a visa. If you do not agree with These, mums, dads, daughters and sons trying to escape from something so fearful fwell you are entitled to your opinion. But it's another thing to spend time trying to compare yourself to them saying you have been denied entry into places before! Yes agreed embarrassing I am sure it was but I assume you just went home and had a roof over your head and food still? For those of you who do want to help there are fantastic causes going on across Europe to help with supplies to those in need. Please get involved.

[i'>[b'>I am a passport holder of the most beneficial passport.[/b'>[/i'> I really don't think there is a "most beneficial passport." There are about 20 one might choose. [i'>[b'>I have never been denied entering a country.[/b'>[/i'> You haven't traveled very much or for very long. [i'>[b'>I have always been welcomed with open arms.[/b'>[/i'> See previous response [i'>[b'>I have always been awed, because where I am from.[/b'>[/i'> I have not, my country has been a major embarrassment to me, many times over. [b'>What have I done to achieve that? Absolutely nothing.[/b'> Agreed, for me as well. http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/the-most-powerful-passports-in-the-world-10194423.html I am very well travelled, thank you very much, not been living in my home country for 16 years and been trying to see as much as I can of the world.

[i'>[b'>I am a passport holder of the most beneficial passport.[/b'>[/i'> I really don't think there is a "most beneficial passport." There are about 20 one might choose. [i'>[b'>I have never been denied entering a country.[/b'>[/i'> You haven't traveled very much or for very long. [i'>[b'>I have always been welcomed with open arms.[/b'>[/i'> See previous response [i'>[b'>I have always been awed, because where I am from.[/b'>[/i'> I have not, my country has been a major embarrassment to me, many times over. [b'>What have I done to achieve that? Absolutely nothing.[/b'> Agreed, for me as well.

Having traveled internationally for over 20 years, as a passport holder of a "Prominent First World Country"... 1.I have had to apply for visas to many countries, before I was allowed to enter... 2.Been denied entry to countries because of my nationality... 3.Have to register my husband before he can visit my country...(ETA Anyone?) 4.He has to register me before I can visit his country...(ESTA Anyone?) 5.Have applied to enter several countries that required several visits to embassies, and submissions of many documents. I am an extremely grateful person, and do not take what I have for granted, but how do people think they can enter any country they want without visas and passports? I am a passport holder of the most beneficial passport. I have never been denied entering a country. I have always been welcomed with open arms. I have always been awed, because where I am from. What have I done to achieve that? Absolutely nothing.

No offense taken LaDida. I gave your post a thumbs up. It is an excellent rebuttal, and only serves to shed light on how truly complicated, unprecedented and tragic this current situation is. I vacillate between extreme emotions about this situation: 1.Empathy for the plight of the desperate, war torn countries and people. 2.European countries who simply cannot handle this onslaught. It really is a horrible situation. Thank you gardenlover. I am not sure the European countries are unable to handle the situation, where there is a will, there is a way. It is one of the richest continents in the world today! However, it shouldn't be a European issue, it's a global issue that needs to be addressed.

No offense taken LaDida. I gave your post a thumbs up. It is an excellent rebuttal, and only serves to shed light on how truly complicated, unprecedented and tragic this current situation is. I vacillate between extreme emotions about this situation: 1.Empathy for the plight of the desperate, war torn countries and people. 2.European countries who simply cannot handle this onslaught. It really is a horrible situation.

Having traveled internationally for over 20 years, as a passport holder of a "Prominent First World Country"... 1.I have had to apply for visas to many countries for entry before I was allowed to enter... 2.Been denied entry to countries because of my nationality... 3.Have to register my husband before he can visit my country...(ETA Anyone?) 4.He has to register me before I can visit his country...(ESTA Anyone?) 5.Have applied to enter several countries that required several visits to embassy's and submissions of many documents. I am an extremely grateful person, and do not take what I have for granted, but how do people think they can enter any country they want without visas and passports? You have answered your own question! You and I have prominent first world country passports. THEY do not. THEY cannot apply for a visa and get it because they have those third world useless passports that no one even acknowledges. There is no queue for them to line up at to get their visa stamps, it's all theoretical. You wanted to visit those countries for tourism or leisure, I assume? They do not, it's a matter of life and death. How did it feel to be denied because of your nationality? But at least you had a 'first world' country to go back to. food on the table, no one wanting to kill you, etc. We are the lucky ones, but no better than them. We are lucky we were born in a different part of the world. I am the child of migrants. I could have very easily been born in my parent's native country if they didn't move a year or two before I was born and who knows what fate would have in store for me. Gardenlover, please don't take it personally but I'm just speaking as honestly as I can.

Having traveled internationally for over 20 years, as a passport holder of a "Prominent First World Country"... 1.I have had to apply for visas to many countries, before I was allowed to enter... 2.Been denied entry to countries because of my nationality... 3.Have to register my husband before he can visit my country...(ETA Anyone?) 4.He has to register me before I can visit his country...(ESTA Anyone?) 5.Have applied to enter several countries that required several visits to embassies, and submissions of many documents. I am an extremely grateful person, and do not take what I have for granted, but how do people think they can enter any country they want without visas and passports?

So, so sad for the children loosing their lives. It is always the innocent who loose out in the end. The crisis in the European Countries is a difficult situation to solve. Sadly, I don't believe that all of those people are true refugees. I feel that some are opportunists using the situation to try to get a better life or better place to live, they are increasing the numbers and making it worse for the refugees to get the help they need. And whats wrong with people trying to get a better place to live or life? Isn't that what we are all trying to do really?:confused: If they are truly running from war, they should've settled in the Southern Europe no problem. However, that is not enough for the hordes or people fighting with the police. The videos are truly scary, most of the people are young feisty men, and because of them, true refugees are not getting the help they need. I think we should remember some fundamental things. We are all human and all live on earth, who decides where each of us gets to go! Being Expats on this forum none of us have decided to stay in the same spot of land we were born! Yes we all lucky to have choice but these humans do not. Borders and countries are something that is man-made do not forget. I agree 110 % people sitting in their comfort zone telling others where they are aloud to be. No one got a choice where to be born and no achievements required to become born in a safe country. An expat talking about others being an opportunist is laughable.

So, so sad for the children loosing their lives. It is always the innocent who loose out in the end. The crisis in the European Countries is a difficult situation to solve. Sadly, I don't believe that all of those people are true refugees. I feel that some are opportunists using the situation to try to get a better life or better place to live, they are increasing the numbers and making it worse for the refugees to get the help they need. And whats wrong with people trying to get a better place to live or life? Isn't that what we are all trying to do really?:confused: If they are truly running from war, they should've settled in the Southern Europe no problem. However, that is not enough for the hordes or people fighting with the police. The videos are truly scary, most of the people are young feisty men, and because of them, true refugees are not getting the help they need. I think we should remember some fundamental things. We are all human and all live on earth, who decides where each of us gets to go! Being Expats on this forum none of us have decided to stay in the same spot of land we were born! Yes we all lucky to have choice but these humans do not. Borders and countries are something that is man-made do not forget.

Not all the UK media, please look further than the Daily Mail. And perhaps consider the resounding silence from the media in other regions.

Absolutely awful what's happening. The UK media has been disgusting when it comes to immigrants as well. I am reading 3 different language newspaper daily and I never seen so much hatred towards these people affected by the war. If there is a war in the UK, I doubt they will be welcome anywhere. The UK benefit system is messed up, hopefully they can sort out that one day. People can't afford to go back to work, have big families for more benefits and the list goes on, of course those people will feel threatened.

If there is a way to help from here we should all be able to !

That little boy's image is disturbing. I cried, then started getting angry at his parents, then i started to rethink. They had to venture out amidst all risks and hope to give him a stable life. They go from Syria > Turkey> Greece> Hungary> and then their final destination " Germany". Some were stopped at Hungary two days ago. If you don't want them walking around freely, okay set up refugee camps.Quarantine them inside the camps, it sounds harsh but better than a toddler dying at sea. I really wish i could do more than just write.

So, so sad for the children loosing their lives. It is always the innocent who loose out in the end. The crisis in the European Countries is a difficult situation to solve. Sadly, I don't believe that all of those people are true refugees. I feel that some are opportunists using the situation to try to get a better life or better place to live, they are increasing the numbers and making it worse for the refugees to get the help they need. And whats wrong with people trying to get a better place to live or life? Isn't that what we are all trying to do really?:confused: If they are truly running from war, they should've settled in the Southern Europe no problem. However, that is not enough for the hordes or people fighting with the police. The videos are truly scary, most of the people are young feisty men, and because of them, true refugees are not getting the help they need. It is OK in theory but you must realise that the southern european countries are in the middle of their own economic crises? What money do countries like Greece and Turkey have to provide the infrastructure that refugees need in terms of food, medical help etc.

If people want to live in a better place or have a better life, there are ways and means of doing it. You can't just rock up to any country you want, and walk in - if that were only a reality.

So, so sad for the children loosing their lives. It is always the innocent who loose out in the end. The crisis in the European Countries is a difficult situation to solve. Sadly, I don't believe that all of those people are true refugees. I feel that some are opportunists using the situation to try to get a better life or better place to live, they are increasing the numbers and making it worse for the refugees to get the help they need. And whats wrong with people trying to get a better place to live or life? Isn't that what we are all trying to do really?:confused: If they are truly running from war, they should've settled in the Southern Europe no problem. However, that is not enough for the hordes or people fighting with the police. The videos are truly scary, most of the people are young feisty men, and because of them, true refugees are not getting the help they need.

So, so sad for the children loosing their lives. It is always the innocent who loose out in the end. The crisis in the European Countries is a difficult situation to solve. Sadly, I don't believe that all of those people are true refugees. I feel that some are opportunists using the situation to try to get a better life or better place to live, they are increasing the numbers and making it worse for the refugees to get the help they need. And whats wrong with people trying to get a better place to live or life? Isn't that what we are all trying to do really?:confused: Of course we all are, but we are not literally depriving people with NOTHING of a chance by doing so

Well new measures are going to be put in place to assess people refugee status and those found to be migrants jumping in with them, or those from safe countries will be sent back. Europe simply cannot cope with this.

Many reasons why the men are going first and not taking their families with them is because of the means to have to reach Europe. You have hundreds of people cramped onto a fishing boat, thrown out into the sea with false promises, told to leave all of their possessions behind only taking the clothes they are wearing, with only tuna fish to eat for 10 days and one toilet which they have to queue for hours to use. Being smuggled across borders is a huge risk and many men choose to leave their families at home because once they are granted refugee status they can apply for the rest of their family to follow in a way that doesn't entail such hardship.

There is nothing wrong with trying to get to a better life. I have moved from Europe to Dubai for a better quality of life but I haven't abused the system, I don't expect free handouts and I have done it through the correct channels. Those in Europe are making it harder to assist the refugees from war torn countries.

So, so sad for the children loosing their lives. It is always the innocent who loose out in the end. The crisis in the European Countries is a difficult situation to solve. Sadly, I don't believe that all of those people are true refugees. I feel that some are opportunists using the situation to try to get a better life or better place to live, they are increasing the numbers and making it worse for the refugees to get the help they need. And whats wrong with people trying to get a better place to live or life? Isn't that what we are all trying to do really?:confused: