Anyone out there who genuine efforts at sleep training didn't work | ExpatWoman.com
 

Anyone out there who genuine efforts at sleep training didn't work

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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 17 January 2013 - 22:56

Hi there, We're now 1 wk into sleep training our 20 mth old....and to be honest have made little or no progress. My husband is very supportive but we are at this stage thinking perhaps its not for our LO and that wel just have to endure poor sleeping etc for as long as it persists. We've been putting her down in her own cot and no longer staying in the room with her and leaving her to self settle. I have gone to the door every so often ( maybe every 20 mins ish) to talk gently to her and tell her it's time to go to sleep and to lie down and have some rest....... No joy, it's taken 2 - 2.5 hrs of crying, screaming, shouting etc every night and last night she even got sick which we both felt terrible about. If you've been thro this and understand the situation I'd love any feedback, if u haven't I really think ur not in a position to comment. I really want her to have a good, restful nights sleep and we both hoped this might achieve that as before she was waking up ALOT every night. Btw she's still waking up after all this crying etx which further makes us question if this is only something that suits a very different child to her.
Thank you in advance.

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EW OLDHAND
Latest post on 31 January 2013 - 09:56
Hi ladies, you now have emails, you can remove your addresses, sorry it took so long
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EW OLDHAND
Latest post on 28 January 2013 - 18:45
Hi ladies, Sorry for the late reply. Been busy today. Tomorrow I'll go through all my email records and send u everything i have! Are you twin mums members of the multiplied uae group? Its a twins support group. You'll hear from me tomorrow, inshallah. Its not easy, but if i can do it, anyone can! Im facing different issues now :-D it gets easier with time, trust me ;)
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 28 January 2013 - 00:19
@ ginnee..i have the same problem as butterfingers..and my twins r 10 months old Alhamdulillah. i gave them breastmilk exclusively fr 6 months n now the situation is one of them refuses to drink any other kind of milk . so now im up cz i havto feed them during the night after every 1 1/2 -2 hrs...its sooo exhausting n my back is killing me .. anywayz..can u plz fwd the mail to me too.... at female_dentistdubai(at) hotmail (dot) com TIA
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 27 January 2013 - 22:49
Wow ! I really forgot to add my email address… Oops ! @Kiwispers, I dont think DS is hungry coz he refuses bottle. Have noticed he actually looks out for the pacifier. And my DD, she loves to snack a little before she falls asleep again. I don't want to do CIO coz I really don't have the heart or patience to see them crying their lungs out. I rather take it slowly with other methods as long as I know there is a possibility of they putting themselves to sleep on their own ! @Ginnee, wow… I really needed to hear experiences from mother of twins… Can you please forward me those emails… Wish God sent them with operating manuals &lt;JOKE&gt; <em>edited by Butterfingers on 31/01/2013</em>
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EW OLDHAND
Latest post on 27 January 2013 - 07:33
I think staying in the room, but facing away, no interaction, is a great idea to begin with. Good luck, keep us updated! Hi ladies, thank you all so much for taking the time to write about your experiences with your babies. Really appreciate this and soooo helpful. So week 1 is down now and we agreed at the start that this would be our cut off point if we saw no real improvements, which we haven't . Sydneygal I can't believe u only had 1 night of 20 mins crying ! That's amazing. I also thought the video monitor was a fantastic idea as one night I was in the kitchen and could have swore I heard a big thud and was sure she had climbed out of the cot and fallen on the tiles and I felt sick going in to check. Somebody also suggested introducing a bed which might work as in some ways I think the cot has become a negative place for her. Let me explain what I / we were doing in the past re bedtime, dinner approx 5.30/ 6, wash and pj's after that, read some books on the sofa in the kitchen, make a bottle for bed, into bed @ 7 / 7.30 where I would sit / stand next to the cot pat and shush. The problem was this could take up to an hr before she slept and even then she could wake up to 5 times before we even went to bed, and one of us would go in to settle her each time. She also woke during the night and after a while (we both work full time & wake @ 5.30 ev' morn) we would take her into our bed. In the end I felt like she was waking constantly in the hopes that it was time to get into bed with us. This has been happening since she was 16 mths and we felt she really wasn't getting a proper nights sleep , our whole evening and many nights were taken up with settling her, which is ultimately what drove us to sleep training . I think I should add that she is quite a nervous child who generally needs lots of reassurance, takes a long time to warm to new people, is very shy in company etc etc.. She has become very fretful about bed since we started the training and the minutes we start the routine or mention it she starts to cry, tell me please mummy no and is completely on edge. So..........I think what we were doing this wk is..... sit in the room but away from the cot, read 2 books, then tell her its time to sleep and mummy / daddy will be here but no interaction. hopefully this will give her the reassurnce she needs for now and then over time we can phase this out. Putting her down awake in her cot, explaining it was bedtime and leaving, then coming to the door every 20 mins or so to reassure) was too extreme for her. I forgot to mention that after the 2 / 2.5 hours of crying and eventually passing out she was still waking loads during the night and is at this point she is a very tired little girl .Thank you all again so much for ur ideas, support, time and sharing your invaluable experiences. . <em>edited by Ginnee on 27/01/2013</em>
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EW OLDHAND
Latest post on 27 January 2013 - 07:27
Butterfingers, i can give u some advice on sleep training twins.(mine are 4 yrs now, but i'll never forget the exhaustion of the first 6 months) I had a sleep consultant come to the house and show me, in australia. I have emails i sent to another twin mum a couple of years ago, very detailed, that i can fwd u. So much info. All babies are different though, so it will take some tweaking. Leave your email address here if u want me to contact you.
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 26 January 2013 - 20:42
lol butterfingers, clearly you are tired, you didn't give me your email address. :) the NCSS book is really an attachment parenting take on "sleep training", recognising that there is a spectrum between cry it out and wait it out, but probably leaning more heavily in the direction of wait it out with a focus on helping speed the process by creating sleep cues and avoiding sleep dependancies (or props as baby whisperer would call them). You'll need patience to utilise the techniques and an acceptance that your babies may still need you in the night but there is advice on how to gently wean your baby (or babies) from sleep dependancies like rocking or feeding to sleep which can be the cause of nightwakings. I would say though that at 6 months many babies would still need some feeds in a night, are you sure your LO isn't actually hungry? anyway give me your email and I'll send the book, and in the meantime google search "pantley pull out" for her technique on getting rid of dummy/feeding to sleep. Another thing you can focus on is teaching your LOs how to put their dummy back in, if you don't plan to take it away (whenever you get up and put it in, put it in their hand and guide their hand to their mouth rather than just popping it in yourself. My experience with the dummy was that my wee guy woke for it several times a night until he figured out how to put it back in which wasn't really until around 9/10 months. A clever idea another EWr uses was to attach the dummy to a small comfort blanket so that it was easier for her to find and manoeuvre into his mouth. I guess if you don't sleep in the same room as your babies you could separate them, otherwise if you keep them close to you then you may be able to tend to them before they get to the point of waking each other. I do know a friend of mine with twins would wake and feed the other twin if one woke in the night so as not to have to get up twice as often. I cant advise you on CIO sorry but I can assure you that non-cry methods do work.
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 25 January 2013 - 22:10
Hey Kiwispers, Can you email me the pdf as well… Struggling to sleep train my 6month old twins !!! My DS wakes up crying 2-3 times each night and the only way he will go back to sleep is either with a pacifier or if I hold him in my arms and put him to sleep. And both of them wont put themselves to sleep. I have to rock them…. How do you sleep train twins ? !!?? They wake each other up… And CIO just won't work with twins… Am exhausted !
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 23 January 2013 - 20:07
you can remove your email now evelyn2000 :)
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 22 January 2013 - 20:35
I haven't ever tried CIO so can't comment on that but here are some non CIO techniques should you need them http://www.parentingscience.com/infant-sleep-training.html. What you are doing now sounds like a technique called "the kissing game" basically you promise a kiss leave for a few seconds, return with the kiss, leave for a bit longer, return for another kiss and so on, until they fall asleep. The key to any techniques success is consistency, and as SG says, you know your own self and your own child better than others. Evelyn you might like to have a look at the site I linked to, and I am happy to send you a PDF of "the no cry sleep solution" which is a very useful book for those who choose not to sleep train. I would love to have a look for the "no cry sleep solution", thank you kiwispiers :D .My <em>edited by evelyn2000 on 23/01/2013</em>
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 21 January 2013 - 16:26
I haven't ever tried CIO so can't comment on that but here are some non CIO techniques should you need them http://www.parentingscience.com/infant-sleep-training.html. What you are doing now sounds like a technique called "the kissing game" basically you promise a kiss leave for a few seconds, return with the kiss, leave for a bit longer, return for another kiss and so on, until they fall asleep. The key to any techniques success is consistency, and as SG says, you know your own self and your own child better than others. Evelyn you might like to have a look at the site I linked to, and I am happy to send you a PDF of "the no cry sleep solution" which is a very useful book for those who choose not to sleep train.
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 21 January 2013 - 08:19
What a brilliant update! Well done you. I think that at 20 months they really respond to the narrative - telling them in advance what will happen, giving lots of warning and following through with exactly what you told them. Make sure you praise her and retell the story in the morning. Ie. Last night we did this and this and you went to sleep like a big girl and that was fantastic. not just praise but reminding them constantly how it was and will be. I would slowly reduce the time you sit on the chair. I used to make up any excuse to leave - like mummy is going to do this and leave for 5 minutes. then come back without comment and without talking. Slowly making the time in less and the time out more.
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 20 January 2013 - 21:54
Back again ladies with the latest update. I have removed the sides of her cot and she was involved in this. I explained to her that cots are for babies and we were making her a 'big girls bed'. She couldn't wait for her dad to come home to show him. I also let her choose which teddy she wanted in the bed with her. She's very happy about me reading the 2 books in the room , after this I turned out the main light and told her its time to go to sleep, I sat of the chair for a bit then left and repeated this for 20 mins by which time she was asleep. She seemed much less edgy when she knew I was going to sit on the chair, tho I know this cant go on forever either. That's aid she hasn't woken yet and even that is progress as she would often have woken 3 a 5 times between bedtime and now (10pm) . Lets see what the night brings, I just hope we don't have a 2 hr wide awake session during the night which we quite often do! While I realize this is far from the 'ideal' bedtime, it's certainly a lot less stressful for her and us and hopefully she will have more restful nights from now on. The bottle in bed is also gone tho strangely it didn't really bother her. I'll give an update in a few days when more of a pattern has developed. I can't thank u all enough for your advice. Xxxx
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 20 January 2013 - 14:07
M1dono - your situation sounds very similar to mine, although we didn't do a real attempt at sleep training/controlled crying for that long. My DD is same age and started about same time as yours needing me next to her to sleep or she would scream. Everyone told me I needed to bite the bullet and let her cry as she was too old to change. Anyway a few nights ago she decided to 'let me' put her in her cot, turn off light, and stand outside her door until she was relaxed and nodding off. I'm hoping 2 or 3 more nights and I'll be able to walk away without her checking I'm still there. Her night sleep has also improved, waking me up once instead of 3 or so, as has her early morning waking. I'm just writing this because I had all but given up, was exhausted, and ready to have her CIO but something clicked and she felt safe enough to go to sleep on her own (more or less). I think that she had a phase that has passed, so don't get disheartened!! I don't know if there was a trigger. I had been telling her what a big girl she was etc etc and could fall asleep by herself but can't think of anything else.
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 20 January 2013 - 13:28
Oh M1, I feel for you. You must be exhausted as well. Let us know how it's going. I'd love to hear about anyone's experience with moving LOs to their own bed. We've had so much luck with the cot Im planning on keeping our DS in his until he goes to Uni lol. I agree with trying to wean your LO off the bottle. It will make them wet more, and they need it for comfort. Maybe give it before quiet time, so they have time for a nappy change and don't associate it will falling asleep. [b'>Start adding more and more water to the mix, until they don't ask for it[/b'>. Or even substitute a cup or sippy cup? It's a lot of sugar on their little teeth whilst they are sleeping. Good luck x can you do this with formula milk too? to add water to water it down?
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EW GURU
Latest post on 20 January 2013 - 10:19
Oh M1, I feel for you. You must be exhausted as well. Let us know how it's going. I'd love to hear about anyone's experience with moving LOs to their own bed. We've had so much luck with the cot Im planning on keeping our DS in his until he goes to Uni lol. I agree with trying to wean your LO off the bottle. It will make them wet more, and they need it for comfort. Maybe give it before quiet time, so they have time for a nappy change and don't associate it will falling asleep. Start adding more and more water to the mix, until they don't ask for it. Or even substitute a cup or sippy cup? It's a lot of sugar on their little teeth whilst they are sleeping. Good luck x
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 19 January 2013 - 14:49
I definitely think from your comments you need to start again. Go to Ikea and buy a new toddler bed, new girly linen, a night light and a soft toy. The whole lot will cost less than a few hundred dirhams. (I'm an Ikea fan) Make an outing of it for the whole family. Make her the centre of attention for the afternoon and talk constantly about how things are going to be. Not about what she wants, but how it will be. At 20 months they comprehend a lot! She is not a small baby - she is a strong willed toddler and she is dictating to you at the moment. I would also get rid of the bottle at bed. Kids who drink to sleep then can't teach themselves to self settle back to sleep overnight. They also take on more liquid than they need for simple hydration and pee all night which also wakes them up. I only allow milk and water in the evening and only from a cup - maybe from a straw or sippy cup at 20 months.
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 19 January 2013 - 13:45
Yes we were very lucky. We also have a video monitor and its one of my favourite baby gadgets! Does your DD sleep well in your bed? If you end up co-sleeping anyway later in the night, you could try putting her to sleep in your bed? but if you want to stop co sleeping and get her to sleep in her own room you may as well keep trying to settle her in her own room. Perhaps changing to a bed rather than cot, with a new special sleeping buddy soft toy she can choose and a new night light will help. You can explain to her that this new little friend will watch over her when she sleeps. It does sound to me like she is waking at almost each sleep cycle to check her surroundings, so because you aren't there anymore she's fully waking up and wanting you. She may also be over tired and that would make her more prone to wake up too. How are her naps during the day? When my boy is ill, I usually co sleep with him, but when he's better he usually settles back to sleeping alone quickly. Occasionally he will kick up a tantrum but I tell him firmly, but gently that its sleepy time now and that Mummy loves him and will see him in the morning. He responds better to a bit of firmness and me leaving, but he's a strong personality...very outgoing and not shy at all. Your little girl sounds the opposite so a gentler approach sounds more appropriate. Wishing you all the luck....it's horrible to be so sleep deprived!
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 19 January 2013 - 12:31
Hi ladies, thank you all so much for taking the time to write about your experiences with your babies. Really appreciate this and soooo helpful. So week 1 is down now and we agreed at the start that this would be our cut off point if we saw no real improvements, which we haven't . Sydneygal I can't believe u only had 1 night of 20 mins crying ! That's amazing. I also thought the video monitor was a fantastic idea as one night I was in the kitchen and could have swore I heard a big thud and was sure she had climbed out of the cot and fallen on the tiles and I felt sick going in to check. Somebody also suggested introducing a bed which might work as in some ways I think the cot has become a negative place for her. Let me explain what I / we were doing in the past re bedtime, dinner approx 5.30/ 6, wash and pj's after that, read some books on the sofa in the kitchen, make a bottle for bed, into bed @ 7 / 7.30 where I would sit / stand next to the cot pat and shush. The problem was this could take up to an hr before she slept and even then she could wake up to 5 times before we even went to bed, and one of us would go in to settle her each time. She also woke during the night and after a while (we both work full time & wake @ 5.30 ev' morn) we would take her into our bed. In the end I felt like she was waking constantly in the hopes that it was time to get into bed with us. This has been happening since she was 16 mths and we felt she really wasn't getting a proper nights sleep , our whole evening and many nights were taken up with settling her, which is ultimately what drove us to sleep training . I think I should add that she is quite a nervous child who generally needs lots of reassurance, takes a long time to warm to new people, is very shy in company etc etc.. She has become very fretful about bed since we started the training and the minutes we start the routine or mention it she starts to cry, tell me please mummy no and is completely on edge. So..........I think what we were doing this wk is..... sit in the room but away from the cot, read 2 books, then tell her its time to sleep and mummy / daddy will be here but no interaction. hopefully this will give her the reassurnce she needs for now and then over time we can phase this out. Putting her down awake in her cot, explaining it was bedtime and leaving, then coming to the door every 20 mins or so to reassure) was too extreme for her. I forgot to mention that after the 2 / 2.5 hours of crying and eventually passing out she was still waking loads during the night and is at this point she is a very tired little girl .Thank you all again so much for ur ideas, support, time and sharing your invaluable experiences. .
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EW GURU
Latest post on 18 January 2013 - 22:18
Hi M1dono, you are far from alone on this one. We used sleep training from a young age and my 20 month old slept like a dream for his first 18 months. Then we went home for a month, and it kind of messed everything up, as its very hard to let a child self sooth in someone else's house and the time zones were soooo different. As the others have said, find a bedtime routine that works in your household and stick to it like glue. We now do dinner, 30 mins quiet play, bath, nappy change and PJs, sleeping bag, two books, chat to teddy about going to sleep and then bed. Perhaps try laying your hand on your little one for a few days till they settle, if they are used to contact. Then sit beside for a few days, then sit 2m away for a few days, working your way out of the room. Perhaps do this for only 10 mins in their room, to let them kniw you are there and then walk out and let them self settle. I also agree with the video monitor. It was the best baby gift we were given. I had lunch today with my best friends mum. She had 7 children. I was mentioning the disruption in his sleep since our holiday, and she said that sometimes your sanity just requires you to walk away. She said there is no way to be there in demand all the time once you have more than one, and all her are very well rounded and happy adults. Pls don't feel guilty. Your little one is safe, and an exhausted parent is no help to anyone. Good luck x
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 18 January 2013 - 22:08
I'm so sorry but I get little bit emotional cos all this sleeping training sounds like a nightmare for kids and parents.The thing is that soon i will be going through this stage as well.With all respect for OP wishing really to find best solution soon. Lets wait for kiwispers she always has good advice. <em>edited by evelyn2000 on 18/01/2013</em>
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 18 January 2013 - 20:47
evelyn2000 - not helpful! I know what it's like to be exhausted. I can still remember with my first child being back at work with an 8 month old who still insisted that he feed multiple times overnight. It is soul destroying! I tried a modified version of controlled crying called 'pick up, put down'. Firstly you need a really really strict bedtime schedule. Work one out that suits you and write it down for teh family including DH to see. For me it was dinner 5.30, quiet time until 7.00, bath, clean teeth, get pjs on, read 2 books and lights off. I used this from a very young age of about 4 months and it still works for my 7 year old today. I use a bedtime warning system in that I give 15 minutes, 10 minutes and then 5 minutes warning to 7 pm. No negotiation to be entered into. After it was bedtime I refused to talk to my kids. I would go in, lie them down, pat, shush and walk back out again (or sit in the corner of the room facing away from them). You might also like to try some nice music. Another idea at this age is to do something dramatic. change everything and try to break the cycle. Set up a toddler bed and get rid of the cot. buy a new sleep toy (ikea has cheap and washable ones). let her choose new pjs and sheets for the bed. And a night light too. My DS2 went into a bed at this age and it was the best thing ever for him. He did have a baby gate on the door but he never really tried to come out.
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 18 January 2013 - 18:31
Evelyn2000...If you're not in a position to comment, don't. I don't think the OP needs a guilt trip, just some support. OP - do what feels right for you. If you don't feel CIO is working, perhaps a different approach is necessary. I personally tried everything, including co sleeping which made my DS sleep even worse as he thought it was play time. CIO was not such a traumatic experience for us however, it was literally one night of 20min crying where we then went in to settle him and he then slept through. Perhaps you can try what shjbelle suggested and stay in, just shush, pat, tell her it's sleepy time etc but don't pick her up? Or get your DH to do it, sometimes that makes a difference? Good Luck Edited to add that our strategy was to leave DS for 20 min max before going in, telling him it was sleepy time and at that point we would pick up and cuddle, whatever it took to get him back to sleep. We also still put him to sleep normally and only did the 20 min at first waking. Luckily after the first time he only woke once or twice in the week that followed and within 5 min went back to sleep. Now at 20 months he sleeps 12 hours and has a 3 hour nap in the day. <em>edited by sydneygal on 18/01/2013</em>
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 18 January 2013 - 16:28
I am not in the position to comment on this thread....just get tears in my eyes reading...:( Good luck anyhow
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 18 January 2013 - 16:03
my dd is 18 months, she always used to fall asleep in my arms but when she was about 9 months she stopped doing this so we had to do some sleep training, as I was putting her in the cot whilst she was still awake. it took a few days of leaving her to cry in the end, after trying various other ways. at first i would go in every 15 mins or so and sooth her (not pick her up just lay her back down, say hi) but this seemed to make her worse and more distressed over and over again, so in the end on the advice of another mum i left her to cry herself to sleep. i have a camera monitor and this really helped me as i could see her, so as she cried and i got stressed, i felt much better than i could actually see she was ok, as in my mind i was worrying she had hurt herself or got her left stuck in in the cot or something, and it made me want to go back in. the camera monitor was god send! the most she ever cried for was about an hour straight (once i stopped going back in there). it was hard but after abotu 4 nights it stopped and she still sometimes tries it on but only ever for five minutes then she lays down and goes to sleep. i use a dummy (night time only) and i must say it helps! not looking forward to getting that off her which I keep telling myself Im going to do one of these nights...! she doesnt generally wake in the night. again, she used to but unless she cried for 10 mins or more, i didnt go in (watcher her on the monitor, again made me feel better that i could see she was ok), and once she realised there was nothing going on and no one was coming she just went back to sleep. i agree to use a night light. good luck - it will be worth it in the end...!
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 18 January 2013 - 13:42
We sleep trained around 6-7 months and had no problems....so sorry to hear you and your LO are going through this. My DS is now 20 months old and by this age they are much stronger in knowing what they want! It might help to know why she was waking....for feeds, for comfort for example? What were you doing previously? Does she have any toys in her cot or use a dummy for comfort? In the past few mths my son went from sleeping with two dummies to wanting two teddies, two bunnies, a mouse toy, a frog toy and a dog toy in there with him.....if your LO has a particular toy shes attached to, perhaps something to try? Or maybe you could leave her door open or give her a nightlight? Hope you get through this and get some sleep soon! There are other non CIO techniques to try if you don't think this is working. Only you know your LO and what would work best.....good luck
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EW GURU
Latest post on 18 January 2013 - 10:02
When I first did that, I didn't immediately leave the room after putting DD in her cot at night. I put her in, and sat down with a book. I told her that it's night time, and I will be here to keep her company until she sleeps. The first few times, she cried and stood up. But I didn't carry her. I just told her, see Mummy's here and will be here, so don't worry. Just close your eyes and sleep honey. After 3 nights, she learnt it and after a week, she slept straight away. heh. Oh, I also had a night light for her. Hope this helps. xx
 
 

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