Lazy parents - check the definition of nanny

My mother migrated (during war time) to Australia with 4 kids (3 under 10) without any family, friends or acquaintances to speak of. She went from having a full time nanny to absolutely no help whatsoever (and that includes my father). She was not working initially, and I can tell you from what she has said to me, there are no words to describe how hard it was for her and how many times she completely despaired about her life. The judgement on 'non-working mums' being lazy for having a maid (or for not working) and insinuating they do not need help INFURIATES me because I KNOW how hard my mother worked to raise us and what an ease on her burden a nanny/housekeeper/RANDOM STRANGER BABYSITTING HER KIDS would have been. I am so tempted to swear my head off. I am leaving it at that.

Oooh and while I'm at it - Salome - I've read many of your posts and from what I can see you like posting controversial bits and bats to stir things up. I may get banned for writing this but what the heck - grow up!

AnonD I am a regular reader on this board but a fairly irregular writer. But I want you to know that I have read many of your posts and I think about you almost every day. I am a new Mum and don't really have any practical advice for you but I want you to know that there is a tired woman in Jumeirah sending you positive thoughts - EVERY DAY. I so hope that you find what it is you need to help find contentment in your life. Frannie x

AnonDubai - as many have said, you're not alone. Ladies who know me on here might remember a few threads of mine when i was struggling with DD. DH had been away for over a month when DD decided to be a little monster and i was at my wits end. He couldn't understand at all when i said that sometimes i didn't like her. I adore my daughter, she's my world but at that time i was struggling so badly i couldn't see the wood for the trees. i'm so glad that i took that step to get help to help me start enjoying her again...x

I wish I had a nanny that I could leave my kids with every day all day. I don't like motherhood. Oh what’s wrong, can you talk about it here?

I don't think anyone should judge how anyone else raises their child unless it is putting the child in harms way. Although I do have a problem with those that put the full raising of the child in the hands of the maid and don't get involved in their child's upbringing. Here I think that there are many maids here are overworked and underpaid but that's by the standards I'm use to. Do I have a maid? No. Would I want one? Maybe at least once a week. But that's mainly because I know I wouldn't have the help back home nor do I feel the need for me to have one here. But I'm pretty sure if I was working full time I would definitely have one here because with the sand and the size of the homes it can be overwhelming. Anon... parenting is tough. I have two boys.... one 3 and one now 6 months (OMG). The oldest is finally being put in nursery. Yes unfortunately I'm one of those ones who hasn't successfully potty trained their three yr old but he has had surgery for a hydrocele two months ago and then travelling. The other is finally getting over his reflux .... we hope. Its a struggle at times and yes can unfortunately put you to a breaking point. I find it may even be more difficult to deal with over here. Many here have social circles that they could discuss things with but for many of us there is no family nearby nor close friends to discuss problems with which seem to make our problems even more difficult to deal with. I think all of us need that mommy break time. Even if its locking ourselves in the bathroom lol. We need those datenights with the hubbies or just to get out of the house by ourselves, just to refocus our energy.

Green-ish replied : Greenish wrote: I don't know if it's a language issue with you or if you really are as judgemental as you appear in so many of your posts. All I have tried to say to you time and again is that generalisations and open-ended judgements are unfair, unhelpful and have no place amongst a supportive group of women/mothers. Green-ish ...supporting each other does not mean endorsing inaccurate comments and facts ... I'm not sure what you mean, Salome. This is not about this post but in general . I am a working mum ( employing a full time maid at home and I enjoy it every day ...) with more than 20 years in the healthcare system all over the world . When LD said that the NICU in Al Wasl is free, I told her that this is wrong ...when another OP said OMG this DR is amazing , I told her that this is wrong as I knew that because of this DR a patient died ... I cant agree with innacurate comments so I am not supportive in this forum?!? please explain to me Greenish what I should answer to all these OP . Thanks . edited by salome on 26/01/2011 So basically, your comment that I questioned above was not even referring to this thread, which is why I didn't understand what you wrote. I have no problem with posters disagreeing with each other or adding pertinent information to a discussion. I do however think that there's a way to put the information or opinion across that does not suggest you have no respect for the opinion of others. For example...and I apologise in advance to all I'm about to offend. ;) I loathe Bumbo's, Jolly Jumpers and baby walkers etc etc. I think they are dangerous and potentially detrimental to the normal development of a baby's muscular and skeletal systems because they 'force' babies to do things or sit/stand in positions that they are not developmentally ready for. I believe babies will sit, stand, walk and jump when their bodies are ready for these milestones. Except on expert advice from medical professionals, I think the bl**dy things should be banned. BUT, that's my opinion and I do not have the right to force that on anyone else. Every parent has the right to do the research and to use those items if they believe they are safe and relevant to their child and their situation. Unless medically advised, I will never think it's a good idea to use those items, but I do respect the right of parents to choose to use them. I have commented on them in past threads but I don't bother anymore unless the OP is specifically [u'>asking for opinions[/u'> on their use. If someone simply posts "does anyone have a Bumbo for sale", I keep my tirade of 'opinionatedness' to myself. I'd have to have the time, energy and inclination to go back through your history to find plenty of examples where you come in and post the sort of judgemental tosh you have at the start of this thread. We both know you've done it plenty of times and that we've 'discussed' it before. Adding to an existing conversation in a respectful manner is one thing. Posting irrelevant, unsubstantiated, judgemental generalisations or scaremongering with out-dated or inaccurate medical information simply has no place on a forum like this.

Argh never get involved in this but could not bite my tongue. Salome... no disrespect meant, but from your posts it seems that what you term inaccurate comments and facts is when others do not agree with you. I might be wrong here apologies if I am, but this is honestly how it comes across. As a comeback to the article, I have a wonderful housekeeper who everyone will call a maid, but she is my family who loves DD and takes very good care of her because I need to work to keep our heads above water. MIL is around a LOT to help out but my housekeeper does sometimes take care of DD alone. Once I return home, I do everything for DD. Now, from the outside it seems to everyone that I am a lazy parent because I have help from my MIL and housekeeper, BUT I do find motherhood extremely challenging, especially balancing a job I do not like and my health problems. Also in response to ivfuae, we almost lost DD as she came at 31 weeks and had IVH (minor but still there)... she is also very precious to me but I have to work ... what can I do? I can also assure you that I am a very involved and attentive mother and that my child is thriving and gives me great joy every single moment I am with her. Too many ppl here seem to know what the gold standard for motherhood should be (like the article) and lose no time in criticizing and judging women who have help raising their kids. Why? Why should we always beat ourselved up for asking for and getting help? Yes I can do EVERYTHING on my own, but its just not feasible. I have accepted I am not superwoman (i know quite a few of them) and have reached out for help so my kid gets the best of me and my time and I can meet her needs both financially and emotionally. Edited for bad grammar <em>edited by kcinthecity on 26/01/2011</em>

Salome, this is a forum for information and advice, and not for opinions, attacks or discussions about what parents do or do not do..besides, do you honestly think that the people you are complaining about are going to listen to a complete stranger's attacking their way of life. I would suggest that if you know people that fit the criteria of your complaint, maybe it is more effective to speak to them directly?? or a good topic to talk about with your friends perhaps?

Well said Green-ish and Presam12 ;)

Oh my gosh, I'm a tad teary and overwhelmed!! Thank you tahm, halfmoon, DC, Mrs L and my lovely friend Jane (and other amazing, supportive EW women!!!). Salome...to be clear, I acknowledged that your post was not written in your own words therefore I'm not accusing you personally of writing sanctimonious drivel. I do however maintain that judgemental posts like that one have no place on a forum like this. You and I often clash here because I believe to the core of my being that this forum should be about sharing information and SUPPORTING each other. That doesn't mean we always have to agree with each other. I firmly believe that sometimes we have to 'challenge' each other to make each other really think and to help each other to make the very best decisions for our own circumstances. (awfully constructed sentence there!!) I firmly believe in respecting the choices of others as parents. We cannot walk in their shoes. We do not know the specifics of their circumstances etc etc. A long, long time ago I started a thread on the main forum asking if it's possible to respect other people's choices even when we cannot agree with that choice. I think we can always respect the decisions of others when those decisions are made on all of the best information available to them at the time, and with the decision being made with good intent. I don't know if it's a language issue with you or if you really are as judgemental as you appear in so many of your posts. All I have tried to say to you time and again is that generalisations and open-ended judgements are unfair, unhelpful and have no place amongst a supportive group of women/mothers. *Like* The most important thing is to respect other's choice and decisions, you never know what situations they are in! Generalizations are no-good! There is no need to test your threshold, when you have a baby to take care of! DH forced me to keep a part time maid, who started coming just a few days back, who comes and cleans/mops and i admit its a good decision. I used to grumble whole day about something or the other. Now i have a peace of mind that with so much dust around, atleast the house is getting taken care of daily.

Oh my gosh, I'm a tad teary and overwhelmed!! Thank you tahm, halfmoon, DC, Mrs L and my lovely friend Jane (and other amazing, supportive EW women!!!). Salome...to be clear, I acknowledged that your post was not written in your own words therefore I'm not accusing you personally of writing sanctimonious drivel. I do however maintain that judgemental posts like that one have no place on a forum like this. You and I often clash here because I believe to the core of my being that this forum should be about sharing information and SUPPORTING each other. That doesn't mean we always have to agree with each other. I firmly believe that sometimes we have to 'challenge' each other to make each other really think and to help each other to make the very best decisions for our own circumstances. (awfully constructed sentence there!!) I firmly believe in respecting the choices of others as parents. We cannot walk in their shoes. We do not know the specifics of their circumstances etc etc. A long, long time ago I started a thread on the main forum asking if it's possible to respect other people's choices even when we cannot agree with that choice. I think we can always respect the decisions of others when those decisions are made on all of the best information available to them at the time, and with the decision being made with good intent. I don't know if it's a language issue with you or if you really are as judgemental as you appear in so many of your posts. All I have tried to say to you time and again is that generalisations and open-ended judgements are unfair, unhelpful and have no place amongst a supportive group of women/mothers.

Anon - how is the sleep training going.... I know you were having a hard time with your youngest daughter.... Motherhood is tough, I know I felt very much like you when I was in NYC, couldn't afford hel, and without family. So Salome, I will happily admit I am not superwoman ... My maid/nanny allows me to sit down with my son and do his homework and reading with him every day, it means DD gets 2 sleeps a day in her bed, as I don't have to drag her out on the school run, and when it is 45 degrees outside, she doesn't have to wait outside the school gates with me. It also means I can go on DS class trip tomorrow. My lady is first aid trained...she is not part of my household so she can raise my children, but she does mean that each of my kids get quality mummy time every day..... Oh and as DD has taken to standing up in the supermarket trolley , and none of them here have belts, it means DD can still come and do the grocery shopping with me Without me being worried she is going to fall headfirst over the handle bars.... As I said I am not superwoman, i can't keep my eyes on her, and look for what I need...... And leave greenish alone - she's a goodun

I can confirm that Green-ish really is the nicest, wisest, most lovely person you could ever meet. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it. More admirable is that she's not afraid to tell it how she sees it and if that puts people's noses out of joint then so be it.

Greenish wrote : (not the sanctimonious drivel salome quoted below!) Halfmoon replied : If i had to choose one person from this forum, then that will be for sure Greenish.... you are so kind Greenish and having wonderful approach to people.... God bless you. humm... so kind... , are you sure ? Salome... there is no room on the Bumps and Babes forum for b!tches! Don't drag this B&B forum to the school yard please! Well said Shellly!

Greenish wrote : (not the sanctimonious drivel salome quoted below!) Halfmoon replied : If i had to choose one person from this forum, then that will be for sure Greenish.... you are so kind Greenish and having wonderful approach to people.... God bless you. humm... so kind... , are you sure ? Salome... there is no room on the Bumps and Babes forum for b!tches! Don't drag this B&B forum to the school yard please!

Greenish wrote : (not the sanctimonious drivel salome quoted below!) Halfmoon replied : If i had to choose one person from this forum, then that will be for sure Greenish.... you are so kind Greenish and having wonderful approach to people.... God bless you. Kind and supportive. And informative, too.

Anon, children are blessing, same time it is not easy to raise a child. Hope that you will be over with this feeling soon and able to enjoy your motherhood. If i had to choose one person from this forum, then that will be for sure Greenish.... you are so kind Greenish and having wonderful approach to people.... God bless you.

Anon - it seems like you are going to a dark place, not just from this post. We have all felt like this before and your honesty is wonderful.. i know how you feel on many different levels and if you need someone to listen I am willing or i can refer you to someone who can help out a lot. hang in there

...For the non-working mums, who spend their time gossiping and ordering their ‘nanny’ to do this and that, showing off to friends and relatives that you are the boss. Oh! Please do yourselves and your kids a favour - look after your kids to teach them how to behave... Don’t impose all your responsibility as a parent on your ‘nanny’. For reference, look at the dictionary for the definition of a nanny or a maid. Mother Teresa Dubai While I was in Dubai I loved the freedom that having a maid gave me. I loved being able to spend ALL of my time with my children, very rarely distracted by housework. Every single day that I had a maid, I was grateful. Now that I'm back in Australia and doing everything on my own, I miss my kids. Yes, we're all in the same house all day every day but I'm lucky to find 30 mins every day to spend focused on them and almost never get decent one-on-one time with each one of them. I have always hated that people in Dubai use the terms "maid" and "nanny" interchangeably. At the very least, it's disrespectful to nannies. But for some sanctimonious twit to suggest all "non-working mums" who have domestic help are doing less for their kids...insulting and narrow minded. I know for sure from personal experience that my parenting was both more enjoyable and more effective with a helper around the house. (and no, my kids are not dysfunctional, spoilt brats and yes, my 5, 3 and 1 yr old children all know how to clean up their own messes...or at least how to help to get it done!) My point being, those who are actually 'letting the maid/nanny raise the kids' won't read or pay attention to your post Salome. Those who have or had a maid and still parent their own children are likely to find the suggested generalisation both offensive and inaccurate. I realise the post is not in your words, but I fail to see the point of posting it here in a forum set up to help support other mums. Greenish, I LOVE WHAT YOU WROTE here. My point is, if I can sfford to get someone else to do the cleaning, cooking while I spend time with my children, then why not? Every moment I spend doing household chores is a moment lost with my kids. I would not call the helper a nanny though.

I wish I had a nanny that I could leave my kids with every day all day. I don't like motherhood. I really applaud you for being so honest. There was an Oprah episode about this a few years ago and the women who appeared and were honest as yourself really had to stand up against a big backlash from other women. It was all the politically correct types saying "how could you say that" when all these ladies were doing were sharing their true feelings, which is more healthy than living a lie. You do sound so sad through your posts. Have you spoken to your husband? You really need to take some action and get support as quickly as possible. Please don't leave it until its too late. There is always something that can be done.

Being lucky enough to live here in Dubai and be able to afford homehelp enables me spend more time with the kids doing homework, being emotionally able to coach them through life and enjoy playing with them. I do not work, and as i am at home, the kids get 100% from me everyday. The reason they get 100% is that during some moments in the day, I will ask help with watching the kids play making sure they do not get into harm, so that i can Take a few mins to get my head together, make a few calls, and have a break. Nothing wrong with that as then once i am done, I immediatley give my attention back to the kids, refreshed and feeling more human. Being home with kids can be draining at times and you really need every ounce of energy to be able to deal with this. If this means employing help to do this, then so be it. You really dont have to be in a full/part time job to justify home help. Every bit of help you get is a godsend, especially when we have left our family support at home and they are unable to help you.

...For the non-working mums, who spend their time gossiping and ordering their ‘nanny’ to do this and that, showing off to friends and relatives that you are the boss. Oh! Please do yourselves and your kids a favour - look after your kids to teach them how to behave... Don’t impose all your responsibility as a parent on your ‘nanny’. For reference, look at the dictionary for the definition of a nanny or a maid. Mother Teresa Dubai While I was in Dubai I loved the freedom that having a maid gave me. I loved being able to spend ALL of my time with my children, very rarely distracted by housework. Every single day that I had a maid, I was grateful. Now that I'm back in Australia and doing everything on my own, I miss my kids. Yes, we're all in the same house all day every day but I'm lucky to find 30 mins every day to spend focused on them and almost never get decent one-on-one time with each one of them. I have always hated that people in Dubai use the terms "maid" and "nanny" interchangeably. At the very least, it's disrespectful to nannies. But for some sanctimonious twit to suggest all "non-working mums" who have domestic help are doing less for their kids...insulting and narrow minded. I know for sure from personal experience that my parenting was both more enjoyable and more effective with a helper around the house. (and no, my kids are not dysfunctional, spoilt brats and yes, my 5, 3 and 1 yr old children all know how to clean up their own messes...or at least how to help to get it done!) My point being, those who are actually 'letting the maid/nanny raise the kids' won't read or pay attention to your post Salome. Those who have or had a maid and still parent their own children are likely to find the suggested generalisation both offensive and inaccurate. I realise the post is not in your words, but I fail to see the point of posting it here in a forum set up to help support other mums. I couldn't have put it better myself.

AnonDubai, I just want to let you know you are not alone. Many a night I have wondered whether I could enforce a return policy on my two... and I love them to bits. What you're feeling is completely normal and understandable considering the circumstances.

Motherhood can be very hard...I found that I am much more understanding towards my own mother... AnonDubai, I totally understand how you feel...I have been through some very hard time myself and always feel bad when another mum is in pain. Can anyone help at all? Would you like to share some of your problems maybe one of us can help?

Maybe it's the day for it... I could quite happily have nothing more to do with DD after her shenanigans today.

AnonDubai, I hear you I hear you! Will not go into details. I love DD with all my heart, but half an hour every day ONLY to myself is my life saver. And yes - I do have a [b'>nanny[/b'> here. xoxo I think your need for that time to yourself is healthy and normal for all mums. I think it's potentially dangerous to give yourself over 100% to your children. Motherhood has to be THE most draining and demanding job there is...with it's rewards, although there are days for all of us (I'm sure) that the rewards are hard to see. Anon...you are not alone. Green-ish! Thank you so much. I have read so many of your posts - so realistic down to earth healthy approach :) Thank you. You're most welcome! Thanks for your kind words too. It's this kind of advice and support that I want to read about and contribute to on this forum. (not the sanctimonious drivel salome quoted below!) xx

AnonDubai, I hear you I hear you! Will not go into details. I love DD with all my heart, but half an hour every day ONLY to myself is my life saver. And yes - I do have a [b'>nanny[/b'> here. xoxo I think your need for that time to yourself is healthy and normal for all mums. I think it's potentially dangerous to give yourself over 100% to your children. Motherhood has to be THE most draining and demanding job there is...with it's rewards, although there are days for all of us (I'm sure) that the rewards are hard to see. Anon...you are not alone. Green-ish! Thank you so much. I have read so many of your posts - so realistic down to earth healthy approach :) Thank you.

AnonDubai, I hear you I hear you! Will not go into details. I love DD with all my heart, but half an hour every day ONLY to myself is my life saver. And yes - I do have a [b'>nanny[/b'> here. xoxo I think your need for that time to yourself is healthy and normal for all mums. I think it's potentially dangerous to give yourself over 100% to your children. Motherhood has to be THE most draining and demanding job there is...with it's rewards, although there are days for all of us (I'm sure) that the rewards are hard to see. Anon...you are not alone.

AnonDubai - Is there a chance you are depressed? It sounds like it might be a good idea to talk to someone about how you are feeling. If not, maybe it's time for you to go back to work, sahm isn't for everyone. [quote'> Depressed, probably. But there's not much that can be done. Actually there is a lot that can be done if it's just a question of tweaking some chemistry! How old is your lo? Definitely talk to your ob or gp! :) <em>edited by LJB2010 on 24/01/2011</em>