A toddler and a newborn - when does it get easier?!

DC, I am probably so late adding to this thread, but wanted to just say I can sympathize. Mine are 23 months apart and what a demanding year it has been! My only struggle was (and I say only because I left everything else like cleaning and cooking until my husband got home from work or until they both slept) feeding time and napping time for the baby...didnt know what to do with the toddler! No videos and books in the house kept him at one place, he constantly used to come and bug me until I gave up on making the baby sleep and attended to his needs. There were days when I used to lock up in my room and literally weep like a baby because I just couldn't cope. And all this was with a husband who was totally hands on and supportive. BUT, and it is good that there is always a but to these stories :) it will get better! When they grow their needs will change somehow giving you a break from the stress of one particular situation...and that leaves you hoping!

I haven't read the whole thread, but I have 12 months between my dd and ds and it's gotten MUCH easier the last 3 months so from when my dd was 15 months (shes the youngest). The first 6 months were the absolute worst!!! So hang in there :)

kiwi, that's what I've been trying to do for the past few days (DS has been so bored hanging around the house!) but it's difficult when I can't spend as much time as I want to trying to get her either into that sleepy but not overtired state or actually getting her to bed. She usually feeds a little before she goes down and I want this time to be calm and quiet, but DS doesn't really 'do' calm and quiet! :D I'll definitely try to incorporate a time-for-a-nap routine, though. I really do think that will make a difference and I so appreciate all your help :). can you read him a story or pop on a dvd when you are feeding? my DS doesn't really do quiet either so no doubt I'll be asking you for help on this when its my turn, inshallah! A maid/nanny/helper would change your life for the better methinks ;)

So i'm not the only one ! DS 23 months, DD 2.5 months DS also sleeps in the middle of the day but DS .... ?!!? .... she has lungs and knows how to use it when she is not happy! Might be a girl thing! Dont have advice ..just a sore back and the hope that i can put her on a routine once she hits the 4 month mark I followed the babywhisperer for DS and going to try for DD Going to follow this post and hope we both find some advice to keep sane! I need some light at the end of the tunnel :D. DS is 19 months and DD is 11 weeks. DS sleeps once a day, usually around 11.30ish, and usually for almost two hours but occasionally three if he's tired. DD sleeps amazingly at night, going in her crib awake at 7ish and going off to sleep no problems until usually around 4am. She feeds and goes straight back to sleep until about 7ish (some nights she's up earlier and feeds more). Daytimes for DD are a whole different kettle of fish, though. I seem to keep missing her tired signs so she's exhausted by the time I try to put her down and she simply won't settle unless I pick her up and rock her. Unless I get her sleep exactly right, she's the most miserable baby on the planet! She screams in the pram, when I put her in the car seat, screams in the car, if I'm lucky she'll nod off and if not she'll scream the whole way there, if I've been lucky and she's nodded off as soon as the car stops she screams... you get the picture. I guess what I'm asking is how long will it take me to learn to balance the two of them and their needs?! I'm so busy running around after very active DS and trying to give him what he needs, I can't spot when DD needs to go to bed (and of course I can't always do it there and then if DS needs something urgent) and it all just seems such an impossible juggling act! Fire away... :D

Yes, it outlines routines to juggle them both, will email you now.

I'm trying to work out a routine, as in a sequence of events, but so far the only stable sequence of events we have is bedtime. Which, coincidentally, is the only time I can say for (reasonably) sure she'll go down no bother. Probably a link in there somewhere! it doesn't need to be complicated, (i.e you don't have to give a bath followed by a 20 min massage using a magical oil made from organic lavender oil and rare siamese goat tears etc etc ;) its just about developing a few sleep cues that help your baby realise a nap is coming soon for us it was something like this [i'>DS yawns, I take that as a tired sign, turn off any music, take out of playgym/tummy time ends, check nappy, feed if necc, take DS upstairs, dim lights in room, lay on bed, swaddle and give dummy*, pick him up swaddled, give him a cuddle and sing a song, lay him in his bed, stay there until he is asleep, leave room.[/i'> mostly it worked well but admittedly there were times (around the 6-7 week mark) that it was more like... [i'>"DS looks bug eyed, I take that as a tired sign, go upstairs, dim lights, swaddle, dummy, cuddle, song lay him down, spits out dummy, grizzles, I pick him up, lay him down again, spits out dummy, I repeat process 10 times, get sick of repeating, turn on hairdryer pat him until finally his eyes start to close, turn off hairdryer, eyes open, leave hairdryer on for first 20 min of nap and hope house won't burn down"[/i'> by the time he was 10 weeks his eyes would close the second I wrapped him in his swaddle and he'd be asleep on the bed before I'd even transferred him into his cot. I wish I'd incorporated white noise as a cue though because it got hard when I had to suddenly take swaddling away (and I still haven't taken the dummy as it still works like a magic sleep button and I'm just to scared of what will happen without it!) If I needed him to nap in his pram I still swaddled, cuddled and gave the dummy, once he was older he never napped all that well in his pram though. *disclaimer, I think a dummy is an amazing sleep cue and probably very good for helping a high needs baby calm down BUT I know first hand what happens when a baby becomes hooked on it for sleeping, is un-swaddled and knocks the dummy out in the night and is too young to find it and put it back in....I can't say if I had my time again I wouldn't give the dummy though despite all that.

Hi dc I have the gina ford baby and toddler book if you would like to borrow it? Not promising any miracles, but it may give you some ideas on how to manage the routines. I'm in AR. I struggled with my first 2 who are 16 months apart, but things definitely got better when I got a full time maid. Even with my third and full time help, things aren't so bad having 3 kids under 4 running around and that is also without the help from DH.

Thanks, kiwi, that's great advice :). I was looking at her today, though, and thinking she looks so much like a brand new baby still and not an 11-week-old. She still has a strong startle reflex, still flails her arms around uncontrollably, doesn't seem to have met many of the milestones in the What To Expect book... should I consider her a 7- or 8-week-old because she was early? I didn't think I should as she was only four weeks early but then a friend told me I should because she's technically premature as she was born before 37 weeks :\:. She just seems so unhappy so much of the time, and I hate seeing her unhappy. I so want to help but I'm torn with trying to make sure DS is happy too. I wish I could clone myself! yes you should def take into account that she was 4 weeks early, that her tummy is tiny and her body/brain 4 weeks less mature. As far as cloning yourself, best you can do is get some home help, its not copping out, its doing the right thing for you and for your kids. As I said DS was a very settled baby (wish I'd appreciated it more at the time) but having had high needs babies my family I know how incredibly mentally exhausting they can be, so you need to make sure you are able to have a break and feel supported. Also you might want to look into a sling, baby bjorn etc etc so you can keep her feeling safe and secure but have your hands free to deal with your DS. One last thought is that white noise, swaddling, rocking etc seems to be even more important with these babies as they often find it very hard to filter out sensory stimulation so don't feel bad if you find she takes a lot of soothing, it might just be that is what she needs right now in order to not be overwhelmed. White noise is the safest option as its not so much of a prop as you can leave it on all night.

Re. GF - She recommends the schedule, but says feed your baby if he is hungry! I had a misconception about GF until I read her book. I BF on demand with both - and certainly GF routine does help me. As for expressing - it is optional. <em>edited by JoannaS on 19/01/2012</em>

Now my role has changed from the tired sick mother to the referee. When will this kids stop walloping each other? Argh! I think it never gets easier. We just get used to it. Lol! Snap! As for when [i'>that [/i'>stops... well, with my brother and I it was when we started living in separate countries. I was 19! We're bested buddies now though. :) DC - don't forget, "routine" is different to "schedule". You can have a perfectly good bf-ing relationship whilst having quite a strict routine (sequence of events), but GF advocates a schedule (actions tied to timings) and that is more difficult. One of my friends is GF to the core, and although we agree to disagree, she assured me that bf was possible on a schedule, as long as you pump in between feeds to pre-empt growth spurts. Sounds like waaaaaay too much hard work with 2 under 2!

When does it get easier? 1 yr and 1 month and counting ...... Lol! But nothing compared to the first 3 months which were a nightmare! It definitely gets a lot easier as the second one grows up! DS1 is now 3.5 and he is so much more matured than what he was at 2.5! He is a lot more independent and he can keep himself busy. My day is still bustling with energy though. Now my role has changed from the tired sick mother to the referee. When will this kids stop walloping each other? Argh! I think it never gets easier. We just get used to it. Lol!

High needs babies sometimes need wake time of only an hour or less and you also have to factor in soothing time as part of awake time , so if they are a baby who needs a long soothing time you'd prob need to start soothing (as in the entire wind down process) before they even showed tired signs. I found the Healthy Sleep Habits book better explained the whole sleep thing, how to develop naps etc and feeding is considered unrelated to sleep. I worked on length of awake time until the 3/4 month mark then started with developing a fixed first nap time ( I think it was 8am and it gradually shifted towards 9am), because DS took short naps I gave him 4 rather than 3 naps a day for quite a while. By the time he was 5 months I think he had 2 scheduled naps (first and second) and was slightly flexible for the rest based on how tired he seemed. Prob by 6 months or earlier all his naps were completely fixed and very predictable in length. I found it made it much easier to plan my day knowing when he would go down and wake up. I always fed him when he woke and often again before he went to sleep. I don't think it matters at all if the feeding times don't match up with the naps. Basically you [b'>can[/b'> demand feed and still have scheduled naps, but your DS is a bit young and unsettled to be too regimented about it, keep going with the tired signs and maybe make a record of all her naps for a week to see if there is a pattern ?. Oh and I also found that DS had progressively longer awake times across the day, as in the shortest awake time was between wake-up and first nap, and the longest between last nap and bedtime. I [i'>think[/i'> that is common, he was always a mess if I pushed his morning nap too late.

Am thinking of having a read of GF book shelly mentions even though I wasn't a fan at the start either... And emailing Cecile tomorrow to tell her about #2 soon to be arrival. . I just sent DC and inbox msg as I totally didn't even take into consideration planning around the BF'ing as I wasn't fortunate to BF. Its worth a read for the sleep stuff and routines, but I've no idea how to do it with 2 kids and BF. I'm totally freaked too and keep putting off TTC for nbr2! <em>edited by shellly on 18/01/2012</em>

Well you've all totally freaked me out... Although I think every time I see dc and what her little munchkin is doing I say it again and again ... Yep totally freaked...lol. And dc you know I mean that with all the love in the world! :) I have help...And I'm freaked for #2s arrival. I think you are a star for all you are doing xox Am thinking of having a read of GF book shelly mentions even though I wasn't a fan at the start either... And emailing Cecile tomorrow to tell her about #2 soon to be arrival. Get cracking on the help hire! Will send you the stuff I have like list of tasks I felt were important etc and Tanya r has some great docs she sent me too.

I am just about to post on the Maids forum... I think full-time help may be the way to go! Do it! ;)

I am just about to post on the Maids forum... I think full-time help may be the way to go! If anyone has any GF success stories for breastfed babies, I'd love to hear them but I just can't see how her feeding/sleeping routines will work when DD's still BF. I tried it with DD, and it lasted all of 2 weeks :\: With let down issues, engorgement, reflux, snacking (which is common with BF babies) growth spurts which meant on-deman-feeding - DH and I made the conscious decision of persevering & establishing healthy breastfeeding and worked on sleep routines later! Would be interesting to hear of successful BF-GF-Babies...

Mine will be 18 months apart - my action plan - DD into nursery 3 mornings a week...and get full time help, both starting February so that things are well oiled by the time baby Nr 2 comes in July! Going home this trip I could not believe how easy my friends had it - Mom down the road, Aunts, cousins, friends - all in a close radius! Babysitters on standby whenever needed! I struggled with DD in the early days and by no means want to play Superwoman this time around! Nurseries and full time help may not be everyone's cup of tea, but for my sanity, our family's sanity - I need help and a break a few mornings a week from my very active toddler! Something to consider if you have the space, can afford it and comfortable with sending your DS to nursery!

DC, I know you're not GF's biggest fan :D , and her feeding schedules re breast feeding do come under fire, but definitely look at the sleep times as guidelines, as Kiwi mentions. I followed her sleep guidelines to the letter and worked so well for Z and me. I'm very relaxed about it now that Z is older and is more flexible. But try it for a good while, it can't do any harm. Good luck, see you next week x <em>edited by shellly on 18/01/2012</em>

I was a full-time juggler (why?!), but when I was doing it solo in the UK with DH in Dubai, I packed DD off to a childminder twice a week. Can't remember how long for... I think it started at 4 hours a day and then I upped it to a full day! It does really help with things like going shopping, because shopping with *only* a baby suddenly seems like a walk in the park! When we were all together in Dubai, I had a cleaner come in once a week to take care of that, but we lasted a full year before it was clear that DD and I needed a bit more time apart, so she started nursery - 5 mornings - when she was 3 (DS 15 months), this again just meant that I could slow things down a bit, but at the same time adds its own logistical fun - how exactly do you feed a todder at 13h and be out the door by 13h20 for pick-up, especially when said toddler is moving his naps back and would really like to sleep between 12h-14h! It was clear from an early age that DS liked clockwork timings and would sleep best in his cot, so whereas with DD, I would take her out and let her sleep when she liked, DS preferred to be settled at a specific time, so I gave him that and planned what I could of my day around him... which often worked well, because he'd happily sleep for 2 or 3 hours in his cot, but only 1h30 in the buggy, so cot = more peace for me = A Good Thing!

DC I have no personal experience with 2, (or with an unsettled newborn, looking back I had it so easy with DS) but I had 2 nephews who were colic/high needs/fussy babies (whatever you want to label it, basically babies that took ages to settle and cried a lot, didn't sleep well during the day) and for both of them after they were 12 weeks they got significantly better and we much more settled by 6 months. That seems to be typical so although it won't be "easy" I would imagine that once you get past the first 4 months your life will look a lot rosier :) Misby007 I only have one child but I have a nanny who comes one afternoon a week (she is here right now :) ) and she plays with DS, takes him to the park for a few hours. You might want to bring someone like that in who can alternate between the kids to give you one-on-one time with each child, a second set of hands will make all the difference (ideally it would be family but when we are so far away, we have to substitute a bit :). GF really wasn't for me, I don't think her feeding schedules are all that compatible with breastfeeding, but there is no reason you couldn't use the sleep times as guidelines. DS's naptimes have generally been very similar to my GF friends. Second babies do have to sleep on the go a bit more, probably its about finding a balance and making sure at least one nap a day is at a predictable time in their own bed. An overtired child makes for an unhappy family in general :(

Mine's 2.5 years apart but wow, still felt it. As I am not a SAHM and had to rely on someone else to look after the kids when I returned to work, I had no choice but to put them both into routines from the early days so I could ensure she was following what I wanted her to do. That definitely saved the day for me as the day was structured and provided some normality. By the time I went back to work after being home with my newborns for 6 months, I felt comfortable and at peace (I use the word loosely). Both followed the Gina Ford routines and although not for everyone, I liked it and so did DD and DS and up until today, DD is 4 years old and DS almost 2, they are still great sleepers with DS taking his 2 regular day time naps. I leave DD to nap when she is tired only but whether she does or does not, she makes it throigh the night for 12 hours every night. Hope it gets better soon but I would suggest a routine sooner rather than later. It does help and also lets you plan your own time to get other things done. Good luck...

Hi there, I just wanted to add that I am also watching this post VERY closely for tips and advice - 37 weeks tomorrow and DS is just 2...Panic is just setting in with how on earth I will manage with a newborn again and a very active toddler! At the moment, I am struggling to see how I can possibly leave the house, and I really, really hope it gets better before the new baby is 2 or I too may just go mad! I too bought the GF book, but tbh I don't know how this will go down because I didn't do it for DS, and obviously will depend a bit on how the new baby is... One question for DC and others who have been through this - is/was your toddler in nursery when you had your second? Did you find it useful to have some time with just you and the new baby or did you juggle between the 2 LOs? My DS is not in nursery so I am planning to be a full time juggler (!) - any thoughts most welcome!

I was actually thinking the other day, I wish someone had told me to really embrace those spontaneous moments you can have when you are pregnant for the first time and have no children - you know, going to dinner or a movie whenever you want to, or jumping on a plane or in the car to go away for a weekend. I have been trying to think if there are any things we should be taking advantage of over the next few weeks that we can do with one child, that we won't be able to do with two.... apart from the obvious one-on-one time with DS.... I don't want to realise more missed opportunities after she has arrived! Sorry.. I have wandered off onto another topic entirely! That's actually exactly what i say to friends expecting their first! Leave off the shooping, cleaning and tidying - go out, like every night! Cinema, restaurants, lounge around for the whole day and lie in until midday... 'cos that time will be done until the moment you teach your child how to turn the telly on (age 2! Lol) I only wish we'd been able to travel more. We've travelled more with the kids than without - ironically - but you are limited by the child's concentration levels. We recently went to egypt with them, and whilst i would have loved to spend a day at the cairo museum, i just knew that it'd be pointless with 2 bored pre-schoolers... We did, however, run around the pyramids! <em>edited by Hello.Again.Kitty on 17/01/2012</em>