Children's accents/pronunciation of words

Indian English isn't a separate language to English. English is one language - people in certain regions have common colloquialisms, even though there standard/correct English is usually almost identical. Indian English refers to a common set of colloquialisms/misuses that are common to the region. "Paining" or "too many" is not correct in the formal indian education system any more than it is in anyone elses . It really is just bad English. Its nothing to do with race or culture or native speakers vs non-native speakers. I interchanged shall and will incorrectly, as do most Australians. If someone said it was bad English - they'd be correct. And thats just one example of many. I wouldnt start taking it personally or assume someone has something against Australians if they correct my English. People usually speak informally at home. My child would pick up slang Aussie from me - I certainly would like a higher standard of English taught to him at school than I am able to offer him. Correct grammar, tense, etc - I would expect this in any school teacher no matter where they came from . Plenty of Aussies/UK/USA teachers don't teach a high standard of English and I wouldnt spend tens of thousands of dirhams to send my child to be taught by them either. I wasted plenty of time and valuable marks in uni trying to "pick up" the things I was not taught properly earlier. Assuming my son wont be "marred forever" by not teaching a good standard of english is not less of a dis-service than my teachers and parents assuming I would never need fancy grammar when it turned out I did.

Slobber, no, Indian English is a mother-tongue language for many Indians; 'Filipino English' is shorthand for the type of English spoken by Tagalog speakers who have learned English as an additional language; there is a difference. There is no issue with wanting your child to learn your variant of English; the issue is with calling Indian English 'incorrect'; it isn't, it is just different (as with American/British/Australian/South African English). And if you are native speakers at home, I just don't believe your child will be handicapped by exposure to a different form of mother-tongue English for a time at school - any more than I was handicapped by speaking Scottish English at school and 'RP' English at home; I was quite capable of using more than one register, just as children exposed to more than one language grow up able to use both of them. Only ever got confused once; I thought 'outwith' was an English English word and had it struck through in a university essay - looked it up, found out it was Scottish, never used it in formal English again, no issue. I probably wouldn't send my children to a school where all the teachers spoke Indian English, any more than I would want to send them to a school where all the teachers spoke American English; but a year here or there just doesn't seem important. If you aren't native speakers, I think the type of English spoken by a teacher becomes much more of an issue as it is then the main English input. Exactly. I also think that if you've moved to a place where British English isn't the native tongue of the gross majority of the population (even if it's yours), then you have to learn to deal with the consequences of that choice. It's, er, simply not on to say "oh, yes, I want my children to be part of a multi-cultural society" in the same breath as saying "but I'm not happy them being taught English by foreigners". It also highlights the superficiality of the multiculturalism that Dubai offers - people will always tend silo into their own demographic and culture, which is easy in Dubai as there's no possibility of integration and actually little acceptance. Linguistically, variations in vocabulary are not "incorrect" as long as the person is still understood - that why new words can easily be invented: if I were to say "type-pad" instead of "key-board", you'd know exactly what it meant. "Tiffin box"/ "lunch box" / "snack box" - all synonyms.

Slobber, no, Indian English is a mother-tongue language for many Indians; 'Filipino English' is shorthand for the type of English spoken by Tagalog speakers who have learned English as an additional language; there is a difference. There is no issue with wanting your child to learn your variant of English; the issue is with calling Indian English 'incorrect'; it isn't, it is just different (as with American/British/Australian/South African English). And if you are native speakers at home, I just don't believe your child will be handicapped by exposure to a different form of mother-tongue English for a time at school - any more than I was handicapped by speaking Scottish English at school and 'RP' English at home; I was quite capable of using more than one register, just as children exposed to more than one language grow up able to use both of them. Only ever got confused once; I thought 'outwith' was an English English word and had it struck through in a university essay - looked it up, found out it was Scottish, never used it in formal English again, no issue. I probably wouldn't send my children to a school where all the teachers spoke Indian English, any more than I would want to send them to a school where all the teachers spoke American English; but a year here or there just doesn't seem important. If you aren't native speakers, I think the type of English spoken by a teacher becomes much more of an issue as it is then the main English input. How interesting. I had no idea that outwith (not a word that I use have to say) is Scottish! For years my daughter thought her name was Lornar because her English/Welsh grandma finished loads of words ending with a vowel with the letter "R" Same with drawring, tomartors etc!! Drove me nuts! Anyhow, I think that accents are fascinating and with the exception of some, great to listen to :)

Slobber, no, Indian English is a mother-tongue language for many Indians; 'Filipino English' is shorthand for the type of English spoken by Tagalog speakers who have learned English as an additional language; there is a difference. There is no issue with wanting your child to learn your variant of English; the issue is with calling Indian English 'incorrect'; it isn't, it is just different (as with American/British/Australian/South African English). And if you are native speakers at home, I just don't believe your child will be handicapped by exposure to a different form of mother-tongue English for a time at school - any more than I was handicapped by speaking Scottish English at school and 'RP' English at home; I was quite capable of using more than one register, just as children exposed to more than one language grow up able to use both of them. Only ever got confused once; I thought 'outwith' was an English English word and had it struck through in a university essay - looked it up, found out it was Scottish, never used it in formal English again, no issue. I probably wouldn't send my children to a school where all the teachers spoke Indian English, any more than I would want to send them to a school where all the teachers spoke American English; but a year here or there just doesn't seem important. If you aren't native speakers, I think the type of English spoken by a teacher becomes much more of an issue as it is then the main English input.

And there is today's lesson : speak/write succinctly and you may well be listened to ! ;) So since I do not know yet how to think succintly(had to search for it on wordreference.com :)), that is why I do not even listen to myself! :D

And there is today's lesson : speak/write succinctly and you may well be listened to ! ;)

I don't understand what people have got against native English speakers wanting to learn what is [i'>their[/i'> native version of English. Its completely hypocritical. On one hand it is being presented that non-native English speakers have their own version of English that is no more correct or incorrect than others. They have (apparently) "Indian English" or "Phillipino English" and they should be allowed to speak it and not be corrected by native speakers.But then if a British person wants their child to learn British English - well, heaven forbid! - that would just be counter multi-cultural! Its just such absurd logic. A Japanese CEO and an Indian CFO? - sorry, but what on Earth has that got to do with an Australian's learning Australian English or British using British English? If you are a native English speaker the fact that you *might* be dealing with non-native speakers apparently makes it completely useless to ever learn formal English? Huh??? If you're a non-native speaker you're entitled to your own brand of English - but if you speak English natively you're offensive if you have your own brand? Huhh??? What has a Japanese or Indian colleague got to do with how well [i'>you[/i'> speak english?? Its as logical as saying Japanese shouldnt bother too much with learning perfect Japanese because one day they might work with a British person who doesnt speak Japanese fluently. When someone from a certain locality wants their children learning English based on what is correct in that locality - how is that the business of anyone else, let alone a reason for anyone getting offended or getting personal and making nasty remarks ridiculing that person's parenting choices? The importance of a formal/correct version of English [i'>is[/i'> important. For example - in law. Unless there is a particular meaning for a phrase or word in a particular jurisdiction - we would have no way to articulate a law. Law would be become meaningless because it is entirely dependent upon the meaning of the words it is written in. If there is no official or widely accepted *correct* meaning to words - then there is no way to interpret a law. Making them un-enforcable. Its just short sighted to sarcastically say children won't be "marred for life" if they don't learn it. Sure - for many people it may never make any difference. For many others there *are* situations in which a firm grasp on the precise complexeties of English *is* going to be a distinctive advantage if you have it and a distinct disadvantage if you do not. You will struggle in a law career, journalism career etc in most western English speaking countries with nothing but "Dinglish" or "indian English" or "Phillipino English". However, receiving education in a formal version of English is a disadvantage in no situation. Children in Dubai will be exposed to variety of languages in Dubai regardless of what version they are taught at school. Diction, grammar, pronunciation - they will not grasp fully usually unless taught formally. So why not offer it? We don't know what in the future for our children - we can't assume what they will need or not need. Better to over-prepare than under-prepare.

In all cases I do think children do end up picking up there parents accents anyways :-) A former colleague of mine has a German father and a Filipina mother. She definitely speak English with a strong accent but I honestly couldn't tell whether it's a German or Philippines accent. She recently asked me about the nationality of most nursery teachers here. Apparently, she is worried that her kid would speak English with Indian accent. Hello....you have accent too!! :\:

Well said americanfamily3 :-) I have a nephew who has lived most of his life in Sweden, he is trying to learn Arabic in college (Arabic is supposedly his native tongue, he does speak it with a heavy accent though) So i was curious about his teachers and there background, he said they were mostly swedes who are linguistic professors and not native Arabic speakers. My first reaction was why would you learn Arabic from a non-native speaker! then I thought about it some more. Arabic is my mother tongue, but that doesn't mean I am qualified to teach it. So I think the same goes for English teachers and schools. Teaching is an art, and if you are a native speaker of a language that doesn't make you a teacher of that language. As long as the child is learning properly by a qualified teacher, that is what counts. As far as the accents are concerned, who cares what accent your child has, as long as he can communicate clearly and correctly . In all cases I do think children do end up picking up there parents accents anyways :-)

Right or wrong, a good diction (and mastering the language) is a passpartout for many situations in life, not only at work. I think children pick up the accent of the people they spend more time with or who have more influence on them at the moment, but on the long run I have seen people going back to the way their family speak, most of the time. I have not often seen people picking up a different accent from the one used by their family who raised them. With the exception of a friend of mine who picks up the local accent wherever she goes and keeps it until she moves to another area, and this is really upsetting for me. Ayway the importance of a good diction is important only at local level, not in a globalized world. That's why I am so sad that the Esperanto experiment did not fully succeed, it is so unfair and limiting to have a common language that is the mother tongue for some and not for all.

Job market or not that is based on the assumption the world we live in will be run by.................... perfect English speaking individuals, it may very well be that your children may be hired by a firm whose CEO is from Japan, CFO is from India and so on both god forbid with accents and poor diction.

Children are mimics they copy everything, I wouldn’t worry as when you return home they will soon pick up the local dialect be that the Queens English or cockney rhyming slang LOL

Right or wrong, a good diction (and mastering the language) is a passpartout for many situations in life, not only at work. I think children pick up the accent of the people they spend more time with or who have more influence on them at the moment, but on the long run I have seen people going back to the way their family speak, most of the time. I have not often seen people picking up a different accent from the one used by their family who raised them. With the exception of a friend of mine who picks up the local accent wherever she goes and keeps it until she moves to another area, and this is really upsetting for me.

Just to clarify, I am a native English speaker but do tend to ramble and type without checking all typo's. My point was, after having lived in Dubai 10 years and listening to the awfull abuse of the English language form both native and non native speakers,i have the right to choose who educates my child and to what levels. I perhaps dont have the technical skillor elequonce of my peers but it is important enough to me to want the best for my child. I realise the importance of such a skill in the job market etc as another poster pointed out. Many teachers are non native with excellent grammar and pronuciation agreed but after touring a lot of nurseries i found manyof the teachers were what i was looking for, however, the teaching assistants were not and with the sizes of classes what they are i would prefer not to have my child exposed to this level of English on a daily basis. The examples of the English i don't want her exposed to are not making fun or trying to be rude. Back home, the kids are exposed to US/Aus English through the media and will be understood should DD pick any up but telling her teacher that her arm is paining could lead to a lot of confusion and embarressment. <em>edited by nutty on 18/01/2012</em>

I'm from Yorkshire and when I was little I spoke with an accent that you would expect from an "old" BBC presenter. I was picked on for being "posh" - kids from Morley can be very cruel and now I have a Yorkshire accent, not as broad as it was (woh), I am trying to teach my son to speak Yorkshire as my husband has also picked up a nice Northern accent despite being from abroad :)

awwww c'mon...it's iconic kiwispeak now! sweeeet as :D

ohhh no it hasn't, certianly around the Waikato anyway! It's my pet hate.

Great thread, and really interesting to see everyones very varied views. My DH and I are from the North of NZ, and our kids were born here. So I naturally expect them to grow up with a UAE accent rather than any accent from NZ (seeing they only spend maybe a month a year there), and we are quite happy about it. As the NZ accent sometimes be hard for people to understand if it's strong and are talking to people where english may be their 3rd or 4th language. Although after a summer hol's in NZ, DS does come back saying 'Awesome Bro' & 'Choice' - which we nip in the bud quite quickly :-) 'chooooooooiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice', yes, that's one that grates on my nerves when I hear it!! I was hoping it would have died out by now, but it seems not! :)

Great thread, and really interesting to see everyones very varied views. My DH and I are from the North of NZ, and our kids were born here. So I naturally expect them to grow up with a UAE accent rather than any accent from NZ (seeing they only spend maybe a month a year there), and we are quite happy about it. As the NZ accent sometimes be hard for people to understand if it's strong and are talking to people where english may be their 3rd or 4th language. Although after a summer hol's in NZ, DS does come back saying 'Awesome Bro' & 'Choice' - which we nip in the bud quite quickly :-)

I'm glad I will no longer need my Arabic vocabulary and grammar corrected all the time. I never realized it before, but my arabic is not incorrect - it's Australian arabic.

Hello Kitty - it is such a gross over-generalization to say native speakers have poor grammar and second-language speakers have better grammar. The poster was speaking about something who said out the "Backside" and "tiffin box". So its clear that their english was not teaching on a standard of a native english speaker. And there is absolutely nothing wrong when you are paying for education in anything to expect it be taught by someone who knows it thoroughly themselves. Sandyfly - if parents want to their children to speak indian english, then thats fine. Like I said - maybe that would be acceptable in a Dubai school. If your children will stay in Dubai forever - then go ahead. It would be incorrect in a school at home. Maybe they would switch. Maybe they wouldnt. We could also put our children in a school teaching 1+1=4. Surely if they went to another school they would get it corrected also? But why not just teach it correctly from the beginning rather than hoping someone else correct its for them later because if you want your child to learn something correctly in Dubai, everyone who doesnt know is going to have an "I'm offended" meltdown. Its so over the top, its ridiculous.

It is bad/incorrect english. I do not know about Dubai, but if they went home with English like that it [i'>would[/i'> impact their school grades, it [i'>would[/i'> therefore also impact their further education opportunities, and it also would impact them in certain jobs. Perfectly normal to want your children to have a good standard of education and to learn to speak English as though its a first language when it [i'>is[/i'> in fact their first language. Especially after paying tens of thousands of dirhams each year for that education. For my son's second languages I would also only accept native speakers of those languages. So is everyone who speaks arabic as a second language offended by that? Please.. edited by SlobberKnocker on 18/01/2012 I don't actually think it is incorrect English, it is Indian English, which is a variety of its own, just as US English or Australian English is - unlike, say, the English spoken by Filipinos which is definitely English as a 'foreign' language. Yes they would temporarily be marked down but only once - I can't believe any child, particularly one who was hearing correct English at home, wouldn't be able to change those usages very quickly; any more than children who have a teacher who uses the 'we was' kind of regional error in the UK (there are such teachers....!!) are marred for life by it. However if people don't speak English as native speakers at home, and particularly if they don't plan to have their children in English medium school for their whole school career, I can understand them taking an interest in the type of English spoken by the teacher - including not wanting a teacher with a heavy regional accent and use of dialect/errors of the 'we was' variety; just as I wouldn't really want my children to learn French from someone with equivalent French.

such is the beauty of the English language - it allows itself to be adapted and evolves... Vocabulary widens and new words are created. "Hey, I messaged you!" for example... "to message" has become a verb, just as "to phone" has all but replaced "to call you on the telephone"... actually, I suppose that strictly speaking it should be "to call by telephone". I love and cringe at how great a store people set on "native English speakers" teaching their children English. Some native English speakers have beastly accents and wouldn't know a grammatically correct phrase if it came along and slapped them, whereas often second+ language speakers have the more textbook correct English, even though they have an accent. When I was at school in France, I was in the top 3 in the class in French even though I can't roll my rrrrrs. It was because I was more careful, because I took the time to really understand what I was saying and had had to work out how the language operated so that I could bend it to my purpose. Native speakers don't have to go through this exercise and that's a shame.

Is it too nasty off me. Hello to u too been too long. do you mean "of"? ETA - not to be "picky" edited by SlobberKnocker on 18/01/2012 Silly iPhone can't do better at one am, btw I am one of the ones who cares the least about this stuff and often misspells......Never said otherwise. Yes darling I do mean of. Yes, that was my point exactly. You had criticized someone else's english which could have easily just been a typo - then went ahead and made the same error yourself. nutty's issues weren't all typos - I do suspect nutty isn't a native speaker (not that there is anything wrong with that) and a couple of her sentences went a bit haywire. Backside, seriously like our children are going to be forever marred by hearing or using these words, come on people. OFF to bed Sandfly its ****** late ;) It is bad/incorrect english. I do not know about Dubai, but if they went home with English like that it [i'>would[/i'> impact their school grades, it [i'>would[/i'> therefore also impact their further education opportunities, and it also would impact them in certain jobs. Perfectly normal to want your children to have a good standard of education and to learn to speak English as though its a first language when it [i'>is[/i'> in fact their first language. Especially after paying tens of thousands of dirhams each year for that education. For my son's second languages I would also only accept native speakers of those languages. So is everyone who speaks arabic as a second language offended by that? Please.. <em>edited by SlobberKnocker on 18/01/2012</em>

LOL I said b***** late ;)

Is it too nasty off me. Hello to u too been too long. do you mean "of"? ETA - not to be "picky" edited by SlobberKnocker on 18/01/2012 Silly iPhone can't do better at one am, btw I am one of the ones who cares the least about this stuff and often misspells......Never said otherwise. Yes darling I do mean of. Yes, that was my point exactly. You had criticized someone else's english which could have easily just been a typo - then went ahead and made the same error yourself. nutty's issues weren't all typos - I do suspect nutty isn't a native speaker (not that there is anything wrong with that) and a couple of her sentences went a bit haywire. Backside, seriously like our children are going to be forever marred by hearing or using these words, come on people. OFF to bed Sandfly its ****** late ;)

Is it too nasty off me. Hello to u too been too long. do you mean "of"? ETA - not to be "picky" edited by SlobberKnocker on 18/01/2012 Silly iPhone can't do better at one am, btw I am one of the ones who cares the least about this stuff and often misspells......Never said otherwise. Yes darling I do mean of. Yes, that was my point exactly. You had criticized someone else's english which could have easily just been a typo - then went ahead and made the same error yourself. nutty's issues weren't all typos - I do suspect nutty isn't a native speaker (not that there is anything wrong with that) and a couple of her sentences went a bit haywire. Native speaker or not - completely uncalled for to make petty comments on a few simple errors based on her stating she would like her children to learn English from native English speakers. My EW posts go haywire all the time actually. Almost always have to go back and edit them for typos and grammar to make them comprehensible. Not a reflection of my English, though (at least, I hope!)

Slobberknocker, I think when you are criticising the English of others, as nutty basically was in her post, you make yourself fair game - as a non-native speaker, someone could feel that the judgement being made was unfair, as non-native speakers often do have a more correct use of English than us slangy natives - a lot more of them had grammar lessons! I learned old fashioned parsing at my old fashioned (state) primary school, but for my age group, that is virtually unheard of - a real shame. I don't think that someone wanting their children to learn correct grammar and english is unfair or discriminatory against on anyone who does not speak english as a first language? Its not like she said she wont stand her children to be around non-english speakers. She was speaking about an educational institution where the child will receive his/her primary source of English education from the teachers. I don't think it is offensive to anyone to say they want their children to learn English from native English speakers? Come on.... However, I do think it is unfair to pick on someone's English ability in an informal written post that no doubt has typos/autocorrect - especially when the person picking out the "English" errors then goes on to immediately make one herself for the very same reason.

Is it too nasty off me. Hello to u too been too long. do you mean "of"? ETA - not to be "picky" edited by SlobberKnocker on 18/01/2012 Silly iPhone can't do better at one am, btw I am one of the ones who cares the least about this stuff and often misspells......Never said otherwise. Yes darling I do mean of. Yes, that was my point exactly. You had criticized someone else's english which could have easily just been a typo - then went ahead and made the same error yourself. No not the same AT ALL, too late to go through English 101 with you Goodnite.

Is it too nasty off me. Hello to u too been too long. do you mean "of"? ETA - not to be "picky" edited by SlobberKnocker on 18/01/2012 Silly iPhone can't do better at one am, btw I am one of the ones who cares the least about this stuff and often misspells......Never said otherwise. Yes darling I do mean of. Yes, that was my point exactly. You had criticized someone else's english which could have easily just been a typo - then went ahead and made the same error yourself. nutty's issues weren't all typos - I do suspect nutty isn't a native speaker (not that there is anything wrong with that) and a couple of her sentences went a bit haywire.