Shoreline - Landlord Arrears On Maintenance Charges | Page 3 | ExpatWoman.com
 

Shoreline - Landlord Arrears On Maintenance Charges

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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 21:39
Idea: the service provider should be granted the right to take a part of the rent or the whole rent or even the flat itself, if not inhabited of course, according to the amount of the credit, from the landlord. I mean, it is not something I would ever think of in a western country, but here it should be possible to have a law like this. More efficient and less unjust than the current system. Also because, what is the point of the current system? What real threat comes for the LL if the services are cut? Particularly for a LL with debts, I assume he has already fled the country, so why should he be bothered in any way? Shouldn't the aim of everybody be to retrieve the credit and ensure a good quality service so that the value of the houses and the reputation of the real estate of the country is not further damaged? <em>edited by GattaMatta on 23/12/2011</em>
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 21:36
Ohhhhhh. This is NOT the tenant's issue So you think that tenants should expect full maintenance and full access to the facilities even if their LL persistently fails to pay his service charges? You're saying that Nakheel should not be allowed any leverage at all, and should be completely at the mercy of the LLs, with no useful sanction against them if they continue to refuse to pay? Yes, they are entitled to it because they've paid for all those things by paying their rent (invariably in full and in advance). . Not really - if the LL is not entitled to use these services how can he then resell them on to someone else?
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EW EXPERT
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 21:29
Ohhhhhh. This is NOT the tenant's issue So you think that tenants should expect full maintenance and full access to the facilities even if their LL persistently fails to pay his service charges? You're saying that Nakheel should not be allowed any leverage at all, and should be completely at the mercy of the LLs, with no useful sanction against them if they continue to refuse to pay? Yes, they are entitled to it because they've paid for all those things by paying their rent (invariably in full and in advance). It would be like an employer denying an employee his salary because the employer hasn't been paid - yes, it's a bummer for the employer, but hey, it's the risk you take and it's up to the employer to manage their finances in a manner that leaves a contingency. Or, it's be like buying a new car - you go to the showroom, choose the model, hand over the cash, get the keys and it turns out they've taken the wheels off and stripped the interior. That's not the car you paid for. As for how to leverage - the developer should be able to repossess the apartment and try to sell on (lest they find themselves having to pay maintenance charges to themselves... wonder if they would?!)... but of course therein lies one of the many flaws in the Dubai property market - it is a Catch 22, but how do you flog something that nobody really wants any more?! With high service charges going unpaid and everyone being punished, it's essentially become a toxic investment.
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 21:23
Ok Izzy, you've made your point, now off you go, have an early night, thank you.
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 21:20
Ok, you cant read. We moved in four months ago from uk with clean windows yes - part of contract that place cleaned and decorated. Once moved in the other issues raised their heads. You don't always know what the score is until you live somewhere. Funnily enough, I didn't make special trip to check bins, fag end levels or whether beach beds were broken. Naive maybe, but in good faith. By the way, it's amazing how selective some posters are in their reading of others comments. so you moved into something without actually seeing it? and are now complaining that it's not been kept to your standards - if you had bothered to do any research at all about the palms and residents issues you would have probably known this.... She didn't say that, did she? and " kept to HER standards" ? Standards that most of us would require? What i'm saying is that the issues with maintenance etc that she is raising are not ones that have only been around for the last few months - they have been going on for a while. And that you really can't complain in the way that she is, if it was like that when you moved in!! That's my point.
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EW MASTER
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 21:17
Ok, you cant read. We moved in four months ago from uk with clean windows yes - part of contract that place cleaned and decorated. Once moved in the other issues raised their heads. You don't always know what the score is until you live somewhere. Funnily enough, I didn't make special trip to check bins, fag end levels or whether beach beds were broken. Naive maybe, but in good faith. By the way, it's amazing how selective some posters are in their reading of others comments. so you moved into something without actually seeing it? and are now complaining that it's not been kept to your standards - if you had bothered to do any research at all about the palms and residents issues you would have probably known this.... She didn't say that, did she? and " kept to HER standards" ? Standards that most of us would require?
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 21:15
What! For the second time, I'm out of here. Go bother someone else, posters with nothing better to do.
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 21:13
Ok, you cant read. We moved in four months ago from uk with clean windows yes - part of contract that place cleaned and decorated. Once moved in the other issues raised their heads. You don't always know what the score is until you live somewhere. Funnily enough, I didn't make special trip to check bins, fag end levels or whether beach beds were broken. Naive maybe, but in good faith. By the way, it's amazing how selective some posters are in their reading of others comments. so you moved into something without actually seeing it? and are now complaining that it's not been kept to your standards - if you had bothered to do any research at all about the palms and residents issues you would have probably known this.... So now she is the "criminal" here? Come on!
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 21:08
Ok, you cant read. We moved in four months ago from uk with clean windows yes - part of contract that place cleaned and decorated. Once moved in the other issues raised their heads. You don't always know what the score is until you live somewhere. Funnily enough, I didn't make special trip to check bins, fag end levels or whether beach beds were broken. Naive maybe, but in good faith. By the way, it's amazing how selective some posters are in their reading of others comments. so you moved into something without actually seeing it? and are now complaining that it's not been kept to your standards - if you had bothered to do any research at all about the palms and residents issues you would have probably known this....
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 21:05
Ok, you cant read. We moved in four months ago from uk with clean windows yes - part of contract that place cleaned and decorated. Once moved in the other issues raised their heads. You don't always know what the score is until you live somewhere. Funnily enough, I didn't make special trip to check bins, fag end levels or whether beach beds were broken. Naive maybe, but in good faith. By the way, it's amazing how selective some posters are in their reading of others comments.
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 20:59
Ohhhhhh. This is NOT the tenant's issue. Ali k, exactly. In fact our LL has paid totally up to date and we were still imprisoned for several days after payment with Nakheel unable to track said payment. I am afraid Nakheel are exhibiting many unpleasant characteristics, including incompetence. As for what the payments are for, it escapes me. Our windows are filthy, pool unheated and unusable, beach quite littered, beds disgusting and broken, bins overflowing, toilets blocked, water supply often brown, cold or uncontrollable. So why did you move in then????? Can't you read? So basically you are saying that all of these things; filthy cold pools, dirty windows etc only happened after you moved in? All was perfect when you moved there?
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 20:56
Ohhhhhh. This is NOT the tenant's issue. Ali k, exactly. In fact our LL has paid totally up to date and we were still imprisoned for several days after payment with Nakheel unable to track said payment. I am afraid Nakheel are exhibiting many unpleasant characteristics, including incompetence. As for what the payments are for, it escapes me. Our windows are filthy, pool unheated and unusable, beach quite littered, beds disgusting and broken, bins overflowing, toilets blocked, water supply often brown, cold or uncontrollable. So why did you move in then????? Can't you read?
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 19:44
Anyone considering renting an apartment in the future will have to do very careful research before committing to a lease, its something that people don't really think about. but then again, even if your LL has paid up, how do you ensure that others have? What a mess!!! Is the bottom going to fall completely out of apartment prices/rentals? Could the same happen to villas? Who is responsible for the 'service charges' in the newer areas? LL or tenant? <em>edited by Pomegranate on 23/12/2011</em>
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 19:39
Ohhhhhh. This is NOT the tenant's issue. Ali k, exactly. In fact our LL has paid totally up to date and we were still imprisoned for several days after payment with Nakheel unable to track said payment. I am afraid Nakheel are exhibiting many unpleasant characteristics, including incompetence. As for what the payments are for, it escapes me. Our windows are filthy, pool unheated and unusable, beach quite littered, beds disgusting and broken, bins overflowing, toilets blocked, water supply often brown, cold or uncontrollable. So why did you move in then?????
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 19:38
But again, what is the alternative? Keep providing the service as the arrears mount? They just can't do that - they need the money to provide the service in the first place. Service charges are *not* optional. Unfortunately, there is an ingrained culture of non-payment here, because in some circumstances the system allows it. A friend of ours who runs his own business has all kinds of stories about the hassles he goes through to get clients (mostly large companies with local owners who can well afford it) to pay up on time each month. Many have a blanket policy of refusing to do anything about an invoice until someone actually calls to complain that it hasn't been paid, and even then, they'll pull all sorts of tricks to postpone the moment that they actually cough up some cash. Our friend is actually owed hundreds of thousands of dirhams going back 7-8 years, but he can't do anything about it. He's obviously constantly asking clients to settle their arrears, but they know that unless he goes to the huge expense of legal action against them (which would wipe out the benefit of getting the arrears finally paid), they've got him over a barrel. He's also had clients tell him flat-out that they aren't going to pay, and that if he tries to take any action against them, they'll never use him again. There's very little honour here.
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 19:13
http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/dh800-000-or-your-aircon-stays-off-flat-owners-told Here there is no beach to deny access to, so they are cutting off the aircon :( imagine that in the height of summer, not to mention the effect of this on the lifespan of the building.
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EW MASTER
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 19:07
I am sure that there are clauses in leases here that state that landlords agree to pay all service fees associated with a property- there is in ours so the landlords are in breach of their contract with the tenant. Dubai though - so many people think that the law does not apply to them and for many it doesn't or at least it doesn't catch up with them .... they don't have the necessary in place to implement . Nakheel's lack of maintenance has, of course, been shoddy for several years now.
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 17:10
I actually find this thread quite shocking - in the sense that so many people that are posting *think* that they have a right to use the facilities when their LL has not paid maintenance fees. I *think* that I am with Izzy on this. Tenants are caught in the middle, through no fault of their own, but the only way to get the money is to stop the services to the building. Tenants should be hounding their LL's.
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 17:10
Think some people been here too long What, because we understand that services can't continue to be provided if the money necessary to pay for them doesn't come in? It would be wholly unrealistic, anywhere in the world, to expect a facilities provider to keep providing facilities if they weren't getting paid for it. By insisting that Nakheel should provide full maintenance and access to facilities even if LLs choose not to pay, you're basically saying that service charges should be optional and that property owners should only have to pay them if they feel like it. How many people would pay service charges if there was no mechanism to force them to?
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 16:58
Think some people been here too long. Ducking out of such a silly exchange. Enjoy.
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 16:08
Right. I see. No hope of a reasoned discussion here, then.
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 16:04
Yep
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 16:02
Ohhhhhh. This is NOT the tenant's issue So you think that tenants should expect full maintenance and full access to the facilities even if their LL persistently fails to pay his service charges? You're saying that Nakheel should not be allowed any leverage at all, and should be completely at the mercy of the LLs, with no useful sanction against them if they continue to refuse to pay?
654
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 15:57
Ohhhhhh. This is NOT the tenant's issue. Ali k, exactly. In fact our LL has paid totally up to date and we were still imprisoned for several days after payment with Nakheel unable to track said payment. I am afraid Nakheel are exhibiting many unpleasant characteristics, including incompetence. As for what the payments are for, it escapes me. Our windows are filthy, pool unheated and unusable, beach quite littered, beds disgusting and broken, bins overflowing, toilets blocked, water supply often brown, cold or uncontrollable.
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 15:48
I actually find this thread quite shocking - in the sense that so many people that are posting *think* that they have a right to use the facilities when their LL has not paid maintenance fees.
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 15:28
I can only assume Edna that you are a LL/owner/agent or work directly or indirectly for Nakheel??? Nope, none of those things. The only connection I have to Nakheel is that we live in Discovery Gardens (as a tenant, not an owner). Please try and see things from another perspective. I can see it from both perspectives. It seems that it's the tenants who can only see it from one. No, it's not nice at all to be stuck in the middle, but I can understand completely why Nakheel is withholding use of the facilities until the service charges are paid. Our building in DG had its cooling cut off a couple of years back because the owner, a large property management company, had persistently failed to pay its bills. It wasn't much fun for us, but it did the trick, because all the complaints from tenants meant that they paid up the same day. And you know what? Even though we were inconvenienced by that situation, I couldn't bring myself to blame Palm District Cooling. They wouldn't have had to do it if only the owner had paid up when asked.
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EW EXPLORER
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 15:23
Something similar happening with a/c in JLT... being switched off in the whole building... article in The National. Not nakheel involved but same situation, I insist on this being a huge gap in the system of laws and regulations and looks like it is nobody's interest to fix it. I wonder why....... :(:cool:
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EW NEWBIE
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 15:10
Two additional points........ 1. My LL in the UK has been trying on a daily basis to sort this out with Nakheel, emails are never replied to, calls unanswered or if they are answered, conflicting info given............I have no reason to disbelieve him. 2. He stopped paying the maintenance charges because of a serious lack of maintenance!! For example, we have 15 lights between the lift and my apartment door along the corridoor, as these bulbs have gone they have never been replaced, we now have 2 left, it's very gloomy. Also, the sail shading the play area between 2 of the buildings, 16-17 I think, has been ripped and so just hangs flapping in the wind, the maids try to tie it out of the way, it's been like that for as long as we have lived here................I can go on and on with examples of how there is, in-fact, no maintenance going on!!!! I have paid my rent, my DEWA, my DU, my Palm Cooling and my Gas bills...............yet it is the tenant who is baring the brunt of Nakheels action..............I can only assume Edna that you are a LL/owner/agent or work directly or indirectly for Nakheel??? Please try and see things from another perspective.
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 14:52
Definitely not hearsay. If you say so. The same questions still apply, though, don't they? Now that all the amounts owed are out in the open, why is this still an issue? Why haven't all the LLs paid up now, if they were so keen to before?
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EW GURU
Latest post on 23 December 2011 - 09:38
Actually, Nakheel have been totally incompetent when it comes to collecting service charges. Many LLs have been trying to contact Nakheel to establish exact amounts due,to be either ignored, fobbed off or given conflicting figures. Assuming that's correct and not just hearsay, why are these numerous diligent LLs not paying up in droves now that Nakheel is naming and shaming with lists of exact amounts owed? Since there is no mystery over who owes what, why is this even an issue any more? Why hasn't everyone paid their outstanding service charges? Definitely not hearsay.
 
 

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