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glenfiddich49576

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Posts

EW GURU

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 13:14

I understand Gattas point. But this is the only way to get their money. If I was any of you, living in an apartment on the palm, getting d/c and no beach services, then I would have a case in the court right now. I would not sit there sucking it up and moaning to a load of women who either don't care, or can't help on EW. Seriously, go and file a case. *like* On which grounds? It is grey areas everywhere. On the grounds that the apartment isn't liveable without electricity? That the lifts are a necessity, especially for women with strollers? That the apartment was rented at a specific price that included beach access and that is not being provided? I don't think it is grey at all.

KARAZY MAMA51220

179

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 13:13

Just as if C4 on-sold you a washing machine but hadn't paid their suppliers, the suppliers would be dragging C4 through the courts, not you, the final consumer ... edited by Sam7 on 20/12/2011 Completely off. Sorry to say this is not sold. These are rented out and the owner is responsible. Bad comparison.

GattaMatta46817

348

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 13:12

I understand Gattas point. But this is the only way to get their money. If I was any of you, living in an apartment on the palm, getting d/c and no beach services, then I would have a case in the court right now. I would not sit there sucking it up and moaning to a load of women who either don't care, or can't help on EW. Seriously, go and file a case. *like* On which grounds? It is grey areas everywhere.

433

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 13:12

you should be angry with your LL - they are the ones who haven't paid!!!! But how can you be angry with your landlord if you have already paid a year in advance? You have no leverage whatsoever except to move after a year, but what will your LL care - he's already had your cash! report it to RERA; take out a civil case, if you bought a washing machine from C4 and they didn't deliver it, you would complain to them - not Mall of the Emirates.... its the same thing!!!! I agree that it is the LL that the tenants should be angry at, and I also agree that [i'>technically[/i'> Nakheel aren't doing anything wrong. However, using this same reasoning, Nakheel should then be taking the LLs to court and complaining directly to them, not punishing hapless tenants who signed their agreements in good faith. Just as if C4 on-sold you a washing machine but hadn't paid their suppliers, the suppliers would be dragging C4 through the courts, not you, the final consumer ... edited by Sam7 on 20/12/2011 But the supplier would probably stop supplying so you the customer wouldn't be able to buy from C4 - same principle !!!!

433

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 13:11

I see where you are coming from IzzyDubai but they (Nakheel) should have introduced a method of chasing these owners up before instead of holding tenants to ransom at this late stage, it sounds like some landlords owe thousands and thousands of dirhams and they don't know what to do to get the money back, forced sale of the property comes to mind but these take many months to arrange! I believe that they have been chasing owners for years; have tried everything and this is last resort.... Again; why is it Nakheel's business who lives in the apartment - they are cutting off services to an apartment for non payment - sorry but i think this is kinda reasonable..... It's unfair for the tenant but that's really not Nakheel's problem...... It's not their business if the owner sublets....

577

Posts

EW GURU

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 13:10

you should be angry with your LL - they are the ones who haven't paid!!!! But how can you be angry with your landlord if you have already paid a year in advance? You have no leverage whatsoever except to move after a year, but what will your LL care - he's already had your cash! report it to RERA; take out a civil case, if you bought a washing machine from C4 and they didn't deliver it, you would complain to them - not Mall of the Emirates.... its the same thing!!!! I agree that it is the LL that the tenants should be angry at, and I also agree that [i'>technically[/i'> Nakheel aren't doing anything wrong. However, using this same reasoning, Nakheel should then be taking the LLs to court and complaining directly to them, not punishing hapless tenants who signed their agreements in good faith. Just as if C4 on-sold you a washing machine but hadn't paid their suppliers, the suppliers would be dragging C4 through the courts, not you, the final consumer ... <em>edited by Sam7 on 20/12/2011</em>

433

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 13:07

I understand Gattas point. But this is the only way to get their money. If I was any of you, living in an apartment on the palm, getting d/c and no beach services, then I would have a case in the court right now. I would not sit there sucking it up and moaning to a load of women who either don't care, or can't help on EW. Seriously, go and file a case. *like*

2043

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 13:07

I see where you are coming from IzzyDubai but they (Nakheel) should have introduced a method of chasing these owners up before instead of holding tenants to ransom at this late stage, it sounds like some landlords owe thousands and thousands of dirhams and they don't know what to do to get the money back, forced sale of the property comes to mind but these take many months to arrange!

GattaMatta46817

348

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 13:05

I agree GattaMatta. We own an apartment in Belgium and the quarterly breakdown of how our service fees are being spent is very precise, we also have a sinking fund that is there for big ticket renovations and anyone who gets into arrears is taken to court to pay up. The system here is so completely different and it allows owners not to pay their service charges hence affecting the whole complex, not just their own unit/tenant. I think the developers introduced fees but never substantiated how the money was/would be spent (no auditing that I know of) and now that the steering committees are trying to take over management of buildings/complexes these same developers are trying to claw back money still owed from years gone, and in some cases a property has already been sold on and the new owner is being chased to pay old arrears from before, and that is hardly fair either! What a complete mess this situation is, and I don't see an easy solution :( Neither do I, and actually I do not even much care considering that this is not even my country, it will never be so why should I be fighting for it? Because it is a whole sysyem that should be corrected in my opinion, to help us in such cases and I have so much to fight for back home in Italy :D Here I can only find a way to survive case by case, and try to avoid as much as I can to be trapped in situations like these or to learn and pray to be lucky in order to try and avoid them in the future. Maybe I am coward, lazy or just very Italian in this attitude of giving up after all. But this is exactly the kind of situations that make most expats not feel at home, beyond any considerations about citizenship whatsoever.

KARAZY MAMA51220

179

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 13:05

I understand Gattas point. But this is the only way to get their money. If I was any of you, living in an apartment on the palm, getting d/c and no beach services, then I would have a case in the court right now. I would not sit there sucking it up and moaning to a load of women who either don't care, or can't help on EW. Seriously, go and file a case.

433

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 13:02

Again; to be devil's advocate - why is it up to Nakheel to take into account the interests of people who have rented? It's not their concern - they are dealing with the LL - if the LL owes them money, why should anyone connected to that apartment use their services..... sorry but why is it their business what the LL does with the apartment?

111

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 12:55

This is the whole problem with paying annual rents - the tenant has no leverage if things go wrong. We had masses of problems with our landlord to start with, but as we had coughed up a whole year's rent, there was little we could do to get stuff changed. I think that what is happening to tenants on the Palm is an absolute scandal because the tenants have paid for something they are now not getting through no fault of their own. Future tenants of properties on the Palm take note! I have seen things like this elsewhere in Dubai as well. Mostly with Nakheel but not only. For sure Nakheel has become the symbol of "the king is naked" fairy tale here, at least seen from foreign newspapers and observers, but they are not the only ones. But this is an issue with your LL not Nakheel...... Why are you blaming Nakheel when all they are doing is stopping providing a service to people who have not paid.... you should be angry with your LL - they are the ones who haven't paid!!!! The contract is between Nakheel and the landlord and between the landlord and the tenant, I am not angry with Nakheel, I am concerned with a legal system allowing Nakheel (meaning, the generic service provider) to get back, and in such a drastic way by interrupting the service!, at the tenant totally bypassing the landlord who is the actual accountable element. It is the whole concept that is absurd to me here, the final user being the weak element of the chain: he should be protected by the state, case by case. What is this thing that money is more important than people? Even in the case the tenant was really guilty, there are different ways to tackle the issue. Again, we are talking about gyms and beaches here but the concept is perfectly applicable to major services and this is what I mainly refer to. Imagine the damages of interrupting a/c or water or electricity (it has happened more than once, not necessarily in the Palm) for sick people, infants, old people, etc. I can not accept, and it is not acceptable in many legal systems, the idea that money and contracts are the only drive behind every action. The laws should assure a mechanism of protection for all the figures involved. Totally agree with you GattaMatta!

GattaMatta46817

348

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 12:48

This is the whole problem with paying annual rents - the tenant has no leverage if things go wrong. We had masses of problems with our landlord to start with, but as we had coughed up a whole year's rent, there was little we could do to get stuff changed. I think that what is happening to tenants on the Palm is an absolute scandal because the tenants have paid for something they are now not getting through no fault of their own. Future tenants of properties on the Palm take note! I have seen things like this elsewhere in Dubai as well. Mostly with Nakheel but not only. For sure Nakheel has become the symbol of "the king is naked" fairy tale here, at least seen from foreign newspapers and observers, but they are not the only ones. But this is an issue with your LL not Nakheel...... Why are you blaming Nakheel when all they are doing is stopping providing a service to people who have not paid.... you should be angry with your LL - they are the ones who haven't paid!!!! The contract is between Nakheel and the landlord and between the landlord and the tenant, I am not angry with Nakheel, I am concerned with a legal system allowing Nakheel (meaning, the generic service provider) to get back, and in such a drastic way by interrupting the service!, at the tenant totally bypassing the landlord who is the actual accountable element. It is the whole concept that is absurd to me here, the final user being the weak element of the chain: he should be protected by the state, case by case. What is this thing that money is more important than people? Even in the case the tenant was really guilty, there are different ways to tackle the issue. Again, we are talking about gyms and beaches here but the concept is perfectly applicable to major services and this is what I mainly refer to. Imagine the damages of interrupting a/c or water or electricity (it has happened more than once, not necessarily in the Palm) for sick people, infants, old people, etc. I can not accept, and it is not acceptable in many legal systems, the idea that money and contracts are the only drive behind every action. The laws should assure a mechanism of protection for all the figures involved.

433

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 12:43

you should be angry with your LL - they are the ones who haven't paid!!!! But how can you be angry with your landlord if you have already paid a year in advance? You have no leverage whatsoever except to move after a year, but what will your LL care - he's already had your cash! report it to RERA; take out a civil case, if you bought a washing machine from C4 and they didn't deliver it, you would complain to them - not Mall of the Emirates.... its the same thing!!!!

624

Posts

EW GURU

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 12:40

you should be angry with your LL - they are the ones who haven't paid!!!! But how can you be angry with your landlord if you have already paid a year in advance? You have no leverage whatsoever except to move after a year, but what will your LL care - he's already had your cash!

2043

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 12:37

I agree GattaMatta. We own an apartment in Belgium and the quarterly breakdown of how our service fees are being spent is very precise, we also have a sinking fund that is there for big ticket renovations and anyone who gets into arrears is taken to court to pay up. The system here is so completely different and it allows owners not to pay their service charges hence affecting the whole complex, not just their own unit/tenant. I think the developers introduced fees but never substantiated how the money was/would be spent (no auditing that I know of) and now that the steering committees are trying to take over management of buildings/complexes these same developers are trying to claw back money still owed from years gone, and in some cases a property has already been sold on and the new owner is being chased to pay old arrears from before, and that is hardly fair either! What a complete mess this situation is, and I don't see an easy solution :(

433

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 12:34

This is the whole problem with paying annual rents - the tenant has no leverage if things go wrong. We had masses of problems with our landlord to start with, but as we had coughed up a whole year's rent, there was little we could do to get stuff changed. I think that what is happening to tenants on the Palm is an absolute scandal because the tenants have paid for something they are now not getting through no fault of their own. Future tenants of properties on the Palm take note! I have seen things like this elsewhere in Dubai as well. Mostly with Nakheel but not only. For sure Nakheel has become the symbol of "the king is naked" fairy tale here, at least seen from foreign newspapers and observers, but they are not the only ones. But this is an issue with your LL not Nakheel...... Why are you blaming Nakheel when all they are doing is stopping providing a service to people who have not paid.... you should be angry with your LL - they are the ones who haven't paid!!!!

GattaMatta46817

348

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 12:31

This is the whole problem with paying annual rents - the tenant has no leverage if things go wrong. We had masses of problems with our landlord to start with, but as we had coughed up a whole year's rent, there was little we could do to get stuff changed. I think that what is happening to tenants on the Palm is an absolute scandal because the tenants have paid for something they are now not getting through no fault of their own. Future tenants of properties on the Palm take note! I have seen things like this elsewhere in Dubai as well. Mostly with Nakheel but not only. For sure Nakheel has become the symbol of "the king is naked" fairy tale here, at least seen from foreign newspapers and observers, but they are not the only ones.

624

Posts

EW GURU

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 12:28

This is the whole problem with paying annual rents - the tenant has no leverage if things go wrong. We had masses of problems with our landlord to start with, but as we had coughed up a whole year's rent, there was little we could do to get stuff changed. I think that what is happening to tenants on the Palm is an absolute scandal because the tenants have paid for something they are now not getting through no fault of their own. Future tenants of properties on the Palm take note!

GattaMatta46817

348

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 12:24

Actually, basic services should never be interrupted (i am referring to those cases in which electricity, water, a/c have been disrupted). As far as the kind of things we are talking to, the service provider should legally pursue the landlord to retrieve the credit and that's it, what is this thing of involving the innocent tenant? And, even if we admit it is civilized (ok, i take a breath and mumble peace and love, i am starting to get nervous :D) to cut the services down, I would expect the tenant to be able to stop paying part of the rental until the service is re-established, getting back at the landlord with whom the contract exists, and the landlord pursuing the service provider for not providing the service or the service providing pursuing the landlord for not paying, case by case. It all has to do in my opinion with a strange, to me, legal system in which the weak element of the chain is never protected, be it the tenant, the employee, the child, the expat, the stray animal, whatever or whomever. If I am going to far just remove my post, not the whole thread please. ? <em>edited by GattaMatta on 20/12/2011</em>

308

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 11:54

But annual rents are a ME thing - all of the gulf states operate this way; including for nationals of that country. We are nationals and we pay monthly always have and always will do, if everyone said we are paying monthly what choice would the landlord have.

433

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 11:09

Just to play devil's advocate here, why should you have access to beach, gym etc if the owner hasn't paid his service charge. BUT the tenant has paid the rent UP FRONT While i understand that; in someways its irrelevant. The LL does not have the right to use the facilities as he has not paid; so therefore the tenant also has no right to use them. Although this is really harsh for the tenant, are Nakheel really doing anything wrong?? - if you had a business would you still provide a service to people who wouldn't pay??? So what can the tenants do? Hold a sit-in at the gym??? Well the tenants could make a case against their landlord. Exactly!!!

KARAZY MAMA51220

179

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 11:00

Just to play devil's advocate here, why should you have access to beach, gym etc if the owner hasn't paid his service charge. BUT the tenant has paid the rent UP FRONT While i understand that; in someways its irrelevant. The LL does not have the right to use the facilities as he has not paid; so therefore the tenant also has no right to use them. Although this is really harsh for the tenant, are Nakheel really doing anything wrong?? - if you had a business would you still provide a service to people who wouldn't pay??? So what can the tenants do? Hold a sit-in at the gym??? Well the tenants could make a case against their landlord.

glenfiddich49576

510

Posts

EW GURU

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 10:59

Just to play devil's advocate here, why should you have access to beach, gym etc if the owner hasn't paid his service charge. BUT the tenant has paid the rent UP FRONT While i understand that; in someways its irrelevant. The LL does not have the right to use the facilities as he has not paid; so therefore the tenant also has no right to use them. Although this is really harsh for the tenant, are Nakheel really doing anything wrong?? - if you had a business would you still provide a service to people who wouldn't pay??? So what can the tenants do? Hold a sit-in at the gym???

433

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 09:43

Just to play devil's advocate here, why should you have access to beach, gym etc if the owner hasn't paid his service charge. BUT the tenant has paid the rent UP FRONT While i understand that; in someways its irrelevant. The LL does not have the right to use the facilities as he has not paid; so therefore the tenant also has no right to use them. Although this is really harsh for the tenant, are Nakheel really doing anything wrong?? - if you had a business would you still provide a service to people who wouldn't pay???

1050

Posts

EW OLDHAND

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 09:02

We are on the Palm in Golden Mile and yes Dewa did cut the services to the building, mainly water and lift access. These were common areas and the disconnection was a result of some landlords not paying their fees and the owner association not paying the Dewa bill. Personally, I think Dewa are within their rights to cut the services off, they are not a credit provider they are a business and businesses are to make profits or to get paid for the services they provide. We were lucky that our landlord, who owns property in both shoreline and gm, showed us the receipt from paying his owners association fees. So that gave us comfort that he has met his obligations. But has he met all of his obligations under the lease, no, we were told that we would have access to a pool, but we dont and that's three years down the line. DH and I were discussing this issue last night. DH suggested RERA should sell one of these apartments to claim back the owners association fees but that then leaves the issue of a mortgage to be paid out and if there is anything left over to pay the fees. Its all a vicious circle. I dont think Nakheel is doing its premium product any favours, in fact I think they seriously need to engage some good PR to fix the mess that they have done to their reputation and to the Palm. If the owners dont want Nakheel as their owners association, vote them out and appoint other strata managers. The only thing I am sure of is that this saga is like "days of our lives", its a never ending story and the residents are the ones bearing the brunt of the frustrations.

433

Posts

EW EXPLORER

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 09:02

But why do tenants continue to play into the hands of greedy landlords. If everyone just refused to pay 1 year up front, then things would change. It's a renter's market but landlords still seem to be on top. How I wish this would change! A few years ago when they (RERA) reviewed the rental laws here most of us who work in this field would have welcomed a shorter rental contract with monthly rents BUT I think the owners/landlords do not want this change to happen and they have a bigger voice. But annual rents are a ME thing - all of the gulf states operate this way; including for nationals of that country.

2043

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 08:56

But why do tenants continue to play into the hands of greedy landlords. If everyone just refused to pay 1 year up front, then things would change. It's a renter's market but landlords still seem to be on top. How I wish this would change! A few years ago when they (RERA) reviewed the rental laws here most of us who work in this field would have welcomed a shorter rental contract with monthly rents BUT I think the owners/landlords do not want this change to happen and they have a bigger voice.

1575

Posts

EW EXPERT

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 08:51

Just to play devil's advocate here, why should you have access to beach, gym etc if the owner hasn't paid his service charge. Because the owner would neved fess up to the tenant before renting it out. It's cheating pure and simple.

51

Posts

EW NEWBIE

Latest post on 20 December 2011 - 08:50

Because I pay my rent up front and included in my tenancy agreement is acccess to the facilities. Why would I NOT expect access? Just because it's Dubai? One would assume that after taking my money the landlord would "do the needful" and pay his/her bills.

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IFZA Silver and Gold Cup 2024 at Al Habtoor Polo Club Dubai Tickets

Unveiling World-Class Polo in Dubai: Silver and Gold Cup 2024

Can you get fired in the UAE for having a mental health condition?

Can I Get Fired in the UAE For My Mental Health Condition?

Are Family Members Required to Pay Their Relative's UAE Debt?

Are Family Members Required to Pay Their Relative's UAE Debt?

How to pick the best early education nursery school in Dubai

How to Choose the Best Early Education in Dubai

British Expats Living in UAE For More than 15 Years Can Now Vote in UK General Elections

How British Expats in the UAE Can Vote for UK General Elections

Vertical shopping mall in Dubai | Dubai's second tallest building

Dubai's Second Tallest Tower Will Have a Vertical Shopping Mall

Dubai Neighbourhoods New Names 2024 news

These Dubai Neighbourhoods Officially Changed Names: Emirates Hills, Motor City, etc.

Dubai Nol Card Increases Minimum Top Up Fare to 20 Dirhams

Dubai Nol Card New Minimum Top Up Fare Increased to AED 20

Adult Acne Treatment in Dubai | Dubai Dermatologists

Common Misconceptions about Acne Vulgaris Clarified

UAE Family Staycation Offer at Le Meridien Al Aqah Beach Resort

Unlimited Family Fun Awaits at Le Meridien Al Aqah Beach Resort